Scotland, America and Denis Donaldson

by Theorist Tue Dec 20, 2005 16:49

‘'It is widely believed in security and unionist political circles that Donaldson was sacrificed by his British handlers to protect a more important mole who is both a senior Sinn Féin and IRA figure’.

I could agree.

‘but the truth looks like it was a British military
intelligence operation which means that Steaknife/Stakeknife was the
name given to the actual operation rather than an individual informer..

I could agree.

I would also suggest that the South was being targeted also in the 70’s 80’s and would suggest that no less that two very senior government officials could also be agents.

There could also be quite a few medium ranking ones within several other political parties, including those who had their old splits etc.

There could also be a few more in the different Socialist and Republican 'micro' groups, including those who could have been 'transferred' across during recent splits.

The issue of ‘removals’, promotions, appointments and jobs etc could be backtracked in detail as a matter of interest.

by John Tue Dec 20, 2005 17:47

The whole thing is hilarious. I can't stop laughing. The arch-nationalists of Sinn Fein, who constantly lecture everybody else on the subject of patriotism, are riddled with employees of the British intelligence agencies. No longer should they be called Sinn Fein/IRA but Sinn Fein/MI5. All the more reason not to let them into government. Their economic policies (e.g. doubling corporation tax) were probably devised by MI5 agents within Sinn Fein, with a view to discouraging American investment in Ireland and transferring it to Britain. No wonder Sinn Fein spent the past year trying to prevent Ireland developing its one indigenous gas field. The longer Corrib is delayed, the more we have to rely on imports from Britain. The MI5 man within Sinn Fein who devised that policy sure knew what he was doing.

by ede - Ógra shinnféin Tue Dec 20, 2005 18:45 eiresaoirse32 at yahoo dot com www.sinnféin.com 77657657

The only difference from our party and the partisionist parties is you have to infiltrate our party ,Tiocfaidh ar La

by questioner Tue Dec 20, 2005 19:31

an MI5 operative working in the USA?

Can we assume that the US Govt knew about this?
If the US Govt did NOT know, what are the American legal implications of all this?

The Irish reporters reading this right now might like ask their colleagues in DC to ask the State Dept about this one (ahem! Irish Times).


Did the US know or not - if yes... or, if no... - The answer could be quite revealing.

by KEERA Tue Dec 20, 2005 21:28

very revealing comment from Ogra there. lol So apart from members of your partys inner circle working for the brits, you're just like fianna fail? I'm glad you've finally admitted psf admitted it, and from the radical nappie wing non the less.

Provisionalism ala gerry is the british agenda in Ireland dressed up in celtic tops. another thing you could have said ogra is the only thing Republican about the provies is their Bobby Sands merchandise. $$$

by Harry D Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:59

As my granny used to say -

"Burn everything British but ..... their cheques"

by red clydeside Wed Dec 21, 2005 16:10

i think maybe if you spoke to a few more people re:the cnhe/wosba debate then you will find that all it is a clash of personalities.the wosba had done hardly anything in the past four or five years for the republican movement in scotland.there was a time for change and those hierarchy in the wosba didnt want change,end of story.no-one at any time discredited them for the work they had done in the past but they were doing nothing at present.i think the author of this peice has just a little too much time on their hands if that is the best they can come up with.

by jonjo Wed Dec 21, 2005 16:21

just read back on my last post,and it looks as tho red clyeside posted it,im sorry,not very good with these pc's,i was using red clydeside to quote his post,but put it on the authors link.thats why it looks as tho it was him/her who posted it.sorry for any confusion.

by Dillon Thu Dec 22, 2005 17:39

The tragic thing about the divisions within the Provo Movement in Scotland, is that when you examine all the claims and counter claims, none of it has got to do with ideological differences. This despite the fact that the Provos have committed one of the greatest acts of treachery in Irish history.

It's all very well talking about organising in different areas, by having parades and branches of Cairde in the 'little Ireland's', however, what is the point of it all if the organisation you are supporting accepts British rule in Ireland and has abandoned every republican principle it once held dear.

I for one would prefer to support an unbought organisation like RSF, which although small in numbers, continues to follow the path of principle and pursues revolutionary republican objectives.

by ede - Ógra shinn fein Sat Dec 24, 2005 16:08 eiresaoirse32 at yahoo dot com 656646

Only refering to agents, keera - we just dont respect them the same way finna fail does
as for Bobby sands the whole world knows finna fail and english conservetives let him die, and I Know many of there families have sold hunger striker Memorabilia for the cause of educating all including the partitionist Baby Blue shirt scamps.

finna fail dont have policy they have associated policy with there masters in the house of commons of which they pleged there allegience to in the earlier part of this century king and country, being untrustworthy slaves ever since, the fools the fools they have left our country divided Ireland unfree shall never have democratic policy's.
Re -assemble Dáil Eireannn now.

by Concerned Sun Dec 25, 2005 14:47

The people whh were removed from activity in the U.S. were a menace to Noraid in the U.S. and were giving the organization a bad reputation. Denis did not make the decision to remove them but was merely folling orders from the Army council in Ireland. This "hardlined republican" martin refers to was just a gangster using the name of the Republican movement to profit for himself and his friends.

It's amazing that these people are coming out of the woodwork now. Pathetic.

by Concerned about your intelligence Sun Dec 25, 2005 20:24

don't you get it???

the adams leaderships demands WERE/ARE the same thing as brit intell-mi5. wake up. they're the same thing. both wanted to destroy authentic revolutionary republicanism. the provos aren't republicans, ffs

by Frequent Flyer Thu Jun 02, 2011 18:26

AN ALTERNATIVE ENDING

The author of the above piece is obviously very aware of the mechanisms of PDF Scotland at the time in question, the analysis of the situation is correct in most aspects. I would however, like to elaborate on some points and also give an alternative ending that few Republicans in Scotland will be aware of.

The leadership of the organisation at that time, through skilled negotiations, brought many groups and individuals together that might not normally have seen eye-to-eye, to work for the greater good. This in the main was done by two individuals and one in particular whose advice and counselling the vast majority of Republicans in Scotland respected and still do to this day. I speak on this issue with some authority, as I was the Ireland representative at the time. The author is also correct in the assertion that this man was treated contemptuously, when promised another job, a job that never materialised. I know this for fact, as I was the man to offer him this job, only after I had been assured by people in higher authority that this would be a positive and progressive move. Little did I know then that he, I, PDF and all its supporters were about to be thrown to the wolves by unscrupulous ‘Republicans’ in Belfast to further their own, and Sinn Fein’s push for power via the peace process.

Scotland and Glasgow in particular were always vociferous of the opinions regarding the Republican Movement and what direction it was taking, should it be militaristic or otherwise and I always encouraged these views. At this stage, the PDF in Scotland and the merchandise organisation in Belfast were working off each other and were becoming two very well oiled machines, producing and distributing a lot of militaristic merchandise with both organisations getting bigger by the week. Back to the original story and Donaldson attending the Sheanachie function; that is correct, I brought him to it, as I brought many other S/F leaders to other functions, this on my part, was not for financial reasons, but as a show of respect for the PDF workers and supporters, in appreciation of all their hard work. In all the rest of my time in that position I can categorically state that Donaldson had not one iota of input into the PDF nor do I believe that he was in a position to influence others on its demise, this I believe, was in the hands of others . I can’t speak for anytime after I had left or if he had any more dealings with Scotland, but even if he did, keep in mind that the seed of destruction had already been sewn with the offer of the job that never materialised. I must mention here the person I call ‘The quote man.’
This is the person when questioned about the treatment of the man in charge of PDF quoted; If I Had have been doing that job (my job) this situation would never have happened”
The seed of destruction was sewn by this man and this man alone! Not only did he plant this seed in PDF Scotland but simultaneously planted one in the merchandise organisation in Belfast.

I can hear the questions being asked ‘Why would the R/M collapse two organisations that were so successful?’ and I will elaborate why I think that was done. As I said before, both these organisations had rapidly become two very well oiled machines, where PDF Scotland were putting 10,000 plus people on the streets in support of a hunger strike commemorations, that was more than S/F were putting on the streets in Belfast. The merchandise organisation in Belfast were supplying Republican groups throughout Ireland, Scotland, England, America and beyond with merchandise that was 90% militaristic. I believe that certain people within the R/M acknowledged the rapid growth of both these organisations, and within that acknowledgement also the realisation that they could both be potentially embarrassing to S/F.

The peace process, at this stage, was gathering momentum and S/F were also in the process of downgrading or even halting protests and commemorations etc. So, what was to be done about these two groups, who were putting thousands of people onto the streets and promoting potentially embarrassing merchandise? After all the twin-track approach of Armalite and ballot box had long since been abandoned. So, there are now these two organisations that had been both loyal and profitable. They couldn’t be told to just simply stop operating! They couldn’t be left to their own devices. Neither could it be afforded to allow both organisations to move en-mass to another grouping with all its expertise and experience.

With all the above in mind, the ‘quote’ man set about to bring both organisations down. And bring them down in such a way that there would be suspicion, confusion and a muddying of the waters. He done this in a very skilful way, so skilfully, that none of the mud would stick to him, he was left with all the leaders of both organisations on the side lines which left him free to set up another support group, one that dare not question the direction S/F were now leading the R/M and he put at the head of this organisation someone who had previously been banned from ever stepping foot in Ireland by the original leadership for continually undermining its work. Once again in Scotland, after some years of harmony and productive progress, there was now distrust, confusion and resentment. That being said, the workers and supporters of PDF have been loyal to Republican causes for many years, some all their adult lives and are wise enough to see through the smoke and mirrors.

I would like to round this off by saying that in my time working with PDF, I have never worked with a more dedicated and enthusiastic squad of people, and although I was detained every time I entered and left Scotland, I always looked forward to working with this diverse group of Republicans. Unfortunately several of these dedicated Republicans have since died, and although their families and friends may feel that their dedication to our cause has not been fully recognised, I can assure them that despite the treatment of, both workers and supporters of the PDF in years gone by, that their dedication was and still is recognised and appreciated by a great many true Republicans today.

I write this piece, not for as some may say, to have a go at S/F, but to clarify some of the events relating to this era. It is what the dedicated workers of the PDF of that time deserve. The original piece was brought to my attention very recently and I felt it only right to give back my knowledge of the events at that time. Finally, I would just like to finish with a personal thank you to all involved and for there support throughout the years and especially to the family that I stayed with. Without their unwavering hospitality and support we could not have achieved all that we did.
Go raibh mile maith agaibh.