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dublin |
gender and sexuality |
event notice
Wednesday July 02, 2008 13:44
by RAG - RAG
ragdublin at riseup dot net
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Comments (7 of 7)
Jump To Comment: 7 6 5 4 3 2 1I'd love to know what you mean by 'Feminism'?
Also on Wiki:
Some activists of both genders will not refer to men as "feminists" at all, and will refer to all pro-feminist men as "pro-feminists", even if the men in question refer to themselves as "feminists". There is also criticism from the 'other side' against "pro-feminist" men who refuse to identify as feminist. Most major feminist groups, most notably the National Organization for Women and the Feminist Majority Foundation, refer to male activists as feminists rather than as pro-feminists.
Some feminists and pro-feminists believe that it is inappropriate for men to call themselves "feminists". This argument takes a variety of forms, including the following: Feminism is a movement and a body of ideas developed by, for, and about women.
Men can never fully know what it is like to be a woman. By calling themselves feminists, men could preempt and take over the feminist movement, thus stifling women's concerns and voices.There is also internal disagreement within this "movement", for example with pro-feminist me-wing and socialist movements, anti-racist struggles, and so on.
Those who claim that "feminist" can apply equally to men and women often point out that the arguments made by advocates of the term "pro-feminist" are based in notions of biological determinism and essentialism, and are actually contrary to feminist principles.
A clear distinction between "feminist" and "pro-feminist" is also troubled by transsexual and transgendered people, whose bodies and performance of a gendered body (in the sense that Judith Butler defines performance) make even the most basic biological distinction between categories of men and women a difficult task.
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I would have to agree with the argument that using the term 'pro - feminist' reinforces essentialist arguments regarding essentialism and thus contradicts a lot of basic feminist principles.......
Anyhow.........I am sure it will be a very interesting discussion.
Just found this on wiki:
"Pro-feminism is the support of feminism without implying that the supporter is a member of the feminist movement. The term is most often used in reference to men who are actively supportive of feminism and of efforts to bring about gender equality. The activities of pro-feminist men's groups include anti-violence work with boys and young men in schools, offering sexual harassment workshops in workplaces, running community education campaigns, and counseling male perpetrators of violence. Pro-feminist men also are involved in men's health, activism against pornography including anti-pornography legislation, men's studies, and the development of gender equity curricula in schools. This work is sometimes in collaboration with feminists and women's services, such as domestic violence and rape crisis centers. Some activists of both genders will not refer to men as "feminists" at all, and will refer to all pro-feminist men as "pro-feminists".
Interesting point of departure! I'd love to come but live too far away. Oh well....
Best of luck with it anyway.
I'd love to know what you mean by "modern feminism".....
I disagree with alot of the modern feminist movement. Well, except for the whole equal rights thing. But past that it is just sexist. Modern feminism seems to be about getting more rights for women than men, rather than absolute equality.
the phrase "embryonic pro-feminist men's group" was one used by the group itself to describe itself! RAG are providing the meeting space and support. we don't assume to tell the group what it should be or how it should describe itself. at the moment the group is just a few men who wish to start this discussion, so i can't really offer you any details i'm afraid. but please feel free to come along and get involved with the discussion/group.
"it is like a middle class graduate asking workers what they can 'offer' to the struggle against capitalism."
i don't see the connection here tbh... wouldn't it be more like asking the middle or capitalist class what they can offer in the fight against capitalism? anyway, i don't think the simile holds true either way.
it is what it is: a starting point for (hopefully constructive) discussion. and a kick-off point for the group to be what it decides it wants to be.
"Hosted by RAG & an embryonic pro-feminist men’s group…"
As I like to know who hosts events I may attend any chance we can get more detail on the 'embryonic pro-feminist men's group'?
It seems a little strange that you feel required to state 'pro' in front of the feminist.
Is this because it is a men's group? Would you write a pro feminist women's group? I know just as many women as I do men who do not identify nor sympathise with 'feminism'.
A feminist group is a feminist group regardless of gender. Maybe this is the required starting point when trying to get to grips with 'men & feminism'.
Feminism is feminism and if it is to progress beyond 1970's rhetoric then stop creating an artificial barrier between genders. When 'men' realise that they have as much to win from removing a patriarchial society as 'women' then feminism can become a possible reality.
Simply stating what can men 'offer' to the feminist struggle is creating a false division. Men are central to the struggle against patriarchy and men ought to acknowledge that amongst themselves. They are not simply there to 'offer solidarity'. They are not peripheral to the struggle. Thinking like this is archaic. It is like a middle class graduate asking workers what they can 'offer' to the struggle against capitalism.