'Honour killing' victim was raped

by Ashley Fine Wed Jul 25, 2007 19:43

Actually, honour killing are very common throughout the Middle East among the Muslim population. Now with Muslim immigration to the West ,it happening here as well. For a father to order the murder and rape of his own daughter is beyond comprehension. What morally depraved cretins. I do not really understand why Guy is getting so upset and in denial claiming Islamaphobia . Is that for the want of a better argument or is it a bid to silence anyone who may have a different view to himself. Either way Guy, I think it is time you grew up! Islam attacks the human dignity of women as reflected in the Koran and hadith . So I suggest,you read your holy books Guy ,because you can fool some of the people some of the time but not all the people all the time with your whines of Islamaphobia. Some of us are able to research the subject on the treatment of women in Islam by merely doing a google search. Sorry!

by Gerri Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:49

Sorry Guy, did not mean to be personally insulting but just cannot understand how you can claim that there is absolutely no connection between Islam and "honour killings". The fact that most of such killings are perpetrated by Muslims, in Muslim countries, the fact that executions for "immorality" are permissible under Sharia law and are a regular occurence in a lot of Muslim countries such as S Arabia and Iran, the fact that "lewdness" is justification in the Quran for family members to kill women - all of the above seems to me to prove the fact that "honour killings" are bound up in the same patriarchalism and misogyny of a lot of Islamic practices that are carried out by some Muslims.

Unless there is something I am missing here, I can't see where your argument is.

To the writer of the original article, well done for bringing up this subject. I read about Banaz being killed on the orders of her family because she left an arranged abusive marriage where she was raped and beaten, wished to study law and move in with her boyfriend. Now I read that it wasn't enough for them to just kill her, they arranged to have her beaten and tortured before death. How awful. Well done for bringing this up. We cannot afford to ignore deep rooted misogyny on the grounds of political correctness.

Ger

by Guy Tue Jul 24, 2007 09:56

Such insulting comments fit well with your general attitude towards Muslims.

'Honour Killings' as you call them are not part of Islam. They are nowhere mentioned in the Qur'an or Hadites. Yet you use the term 'Jihad against Women' as if this were true. Jihad is a term that refers to the struggle, usually internal, of all Muslims to overcome weakness and evil. Your attribution of it to these murders is simply a ploy to incite anti-Islamic hatred.

You do admit this of course, since it is obvious but continue to cite Muslim countries where women are killed and smear these killings with the 'Jihad against women' label. Women are killed in all countries, as are men and children. The murderers use a variety of excuses, usually the one closest to hand.

The fact you persist in attributing these killings to 'Jihad' and as such to Islamic teaching says more about you and you motivations than it does about the murderers and their motivations.

I will not respond to you flaming comments that I am 'Deluded and Simple"!

by Gerri Mon Jul 23, 2007 23:09

Guy

Are you deluded or just simple??

Of course not all Muslims agree with honour killings or condone them. But to criticize this (mainly Islamic) practice is not to be confused with a hatred of Islam.

"Honour Killings are confined to very small regions and the immigrants from those regions"

Wrong. Honour killings occur in Saudi Arabia, Palestine, Morocco, Turkey, Kurdistan, Afghanistan, Jordan, Syria, Tunisia, UAE and other countries "especially where there is Sharia law". Not exactly a very small region or area.

http://www.stophonourkillings.com/Content/pid=2.html

"It is NOT and Islamic practice. It is not condoned in the Qur'an, which is the basis ofall Islamic law. It is not practiced in the vast majority of the Muslim world. To continue to suggest that honour killings is an Islamic practice is blatant sectarianism"

Sorry dude but honour killings are mostly (but not always) perpetrated by people claiming to be Muslims. "In many countries (especially those where Sharia law is practiced) like Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, where stoning to death is the punishment for adultery, and women and children have had no rights or little rights, women are second-class citizens, opressed by male dominated religions, their own government’s special forces and their own family too. In many countries, women’s rights are a very major political issue and women's rights activists are persecuted by their own governments for the simplest demand of rights. In such countries where women are subject to violence in society, women are victimised by the government too". Iran BOASTS about the women killed there for "morality crimes". In fact, minors have been executed in Iran.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,12858,1376954,00....html

Here is an exception where the girl was killed by members of her community who are of the Yesidi sect in Kurdish Iraq.

http://www.aina.org/news/20070425181603.htm

Which brings me to my next point - you don't seem to know what the distinction is between murder of a woman and an honour killing. An honour killing is done to cleanse the so called honour of the community or family and usually has something to do with the behavior of the woman whether actual or imputed. Male honour (or Namus) is bound up with the behavior of female relatives. *Honour killings are done with the support, overt or tacit, of the wider community". Mr O'Reilly killed his wife because he was sick of her and nobody supported him, in fact the public, police and judicial system are clearly against him. To suggest that this was an honour killing is ludicrous. But then again, people like Guy seem to be given to making ludicrous statements and when challenged to accuse anyone with the temerity to disagree, of sectarianism or racism.

Lastly, your assertion that such killings are not sanctioned in the Qu'ran is untrue.

Qur’an 4:15 “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death claims them. It is not isanctioned n the Qur'an for women to be stoned (to my knowledge) but Sharia law has been adapted to state that this is the correct punishment for adultery, as decided by Muslim scholars.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3999307.stm

As seen above, people in Nigeria have been found guilty of adultery, fornication but due to worldwide attention have been acquitted and escape stoning.

by Guy Mon Jul 23, 2007 20:03

It is you who are wrong in your hatred of Islam.

Honour Killings are confined to very small regions and the immigrants from those regions. It is NOT and Islamic practice. It is not condoned in the Qur'an, which is the basis ofall Islamic law. It is not practiced in the vast majority of the Muslim world. To continue to suggest that honour killings is an Islamic practice is blatant sectarianism.

Is Joe O'Reilly a Muslim? If he were I am sure you would claim he was engaged in a 'Jihad against women'. How many of the women killed by their husbands and families in Ireland in the last ten years were Muslim? I

Your entire line of anti-Islamic hatred is warped and to continue to try a twist isolated world events to suit your skewed view of reality, with the express hope of convincing others that Muslims are women haters is an incitement to hatred and a Crusade against Muslims.

Give it up!

by ishmael Mon Jul 23, 2007 14:10

Wrong!. Honour killing is not confined to a tiny corner of the Moslem World. It is widespread.

Unfortunately, Moslem countries neither protect women nor collect statistics on these abuses (Why would they when honour-killing is not considered a crininal wrong by these societies)

However, western countries DO keep records. In the last 12 months alone Moslems from Khurdish, Indian, Pakistani and Nort-East African backgrounds have been convicted of these killings in both the UK and the Netherlands.

Moslems need to be told in no uncertain terms that if they wish to live in the West they must observe western cultural norms and that if they are into honour-killings, FGM, forcing servitude on their women by arranged marriages etc. they would be more confortable taking themselves elsewhere.

by Guy Mon Jul 23, 2007 13:47

'Jihad against Women'?

This is another piece of blatant Anti-Islamic abuse. There is no provision in Islam for these so-called honour killings. They are confined to a particular tradition in a particular part of a particular country. It is not an Islamic practice and yet this author again decides to smear all Muslims with these actions by referring to them as a "Jihad against women".

If Christians in Alabama burn crosses and lynch African Americans is that a Christian Crusade? Were the Shankill Butchers on a Christian Crusade? Or is it a sacred rite of Judaeism to murder women and children in Lebanon, the West Bank and Gaza?

Enough already 'Marie Stopes'