Stop thuggery in workers’ movement!

by Get a life Fri Jul 20, 2007 16:26

'The political content of the rally was instructive in an odd sort of way. Aside from the international speakers - Trevor Ngwane, a former ANC councillor and founder of the South Africa Anti-Privatisation Forum, and Kamal Khalil from the Egyptian ‘Enough’ campaign - it was far more Respect-centred than in recent years and far more rightwing.'

As often the case another report written in advance. 'Trevor Ngwane, a former ANC councillor' did not speak at the opening rally of Marxism. Clearly the writer of the report in weekly worker did not attend.

by LO Thu Jul 19, 2007 15:46

"AARRGH! The Sparts must have spiked your drink!"

haha yeah probably. wat i liked most about them was that (at least initially) they didnt start slagging off swp or other left groups, they had some thing goin on about sum black panther guy (abu jamal or sumthing) who was wrongfully convicted which was interesting.

"But you are never going to get much of a thread going here about an SWP event because that organization tries to discourage its members from publishing on indymedia"

sad but hardly surprising given some of the level of discussion i've witnessed on sum threads

"Although it is easy to come to hate people who abandon socialists, feminists and trade unionists in Iran and instead become cheerleaders for the Theocratic Regime"

ive never heard them cheerleading, only supporting iran against usa imperialism which is the greatest of all evils. I'm not sure but i'm assuming they would welcome left wing action within iran by iranians but ultimatley its for the iranian ppl to sort out not western socialists.

"You think that the one thousand people at Marxism 2007 constituted one of the largest left wing gatherings in the world"

there was definatley more than a thousand but i don't think there were 6000 people there. either way a massive gathering.

"but get the bruisers out for anybody on the left who threatens to expose their delusions"

like i said before, probly grossly exagerated wat happened to that cpgb guy but also prob sum element of truth. i've been asking around other people at marxism but nobody seemed to know much. it would be good to get other points of view on wat happened.

by tom eile Thu Jul 19, 2007 13:59

You think that the one thousand people at Marxism 2007 constituted one of the largest left wing gatherings in the world . Really ,that's a bit of an exaggeration -I don't think even the SWP would say that themselves. But you are never going to get much of a thread going here about an SWP event because that organization tries to discourage its members from publishing on indymedia .
You do get a lot of anti SWP stuff on this site ;that might give the impression that indymedia is anti swp , but it isn’t per se . Indymedia is a site for open publishing where you get a lot of anti Socialist Party , anti – SF , anti Labour Party etc.comments too .But other organizations do not issue edicts to their members preventing them from publishing here , so you get more of a balanced view of indymedia’s contributors’ opinions of other political groups.
The SWP’s position is that it is the present day manifestation of the Soviet Bolshevik Party and that all other parties of the left are in essence hostile to the revolution of which they constitute the vanguard - the elect . They can accept pro-lifers and outright theocrats at their Marxist conferences ,but get the bruisers out for anybody on the left who threatens to expose their delusions .That’s in the UK of course ,the SWP’s homepatch, I’m not sure if they’d get away with their chauvinism so handily in Ireland .

by John Cornford Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:43

""Don't know if it would justify a thread"

Come now... one of the biggest left wing meetings in the world does not deserve a thread on a left-wing independant media site? wise up"

You misunderstand me. I meant that my meagre collection of links did not deserve a thread of its own. No reason why an SWP member shouldnt do an indepth article on the event.

"Anyway, thanks for posting the cpgb links, got a bit bored reading them after a while, it was all just inane criticism, no actual appraisal or discussion about wat the meetings were about. "

You observed the events through a certain lens, the CPGB observed it through another. Somewhere in between lies a clearer reflection of what transpired.

""Good crowd of the left groups outside the place too, sp weren't there though which was dissapointing, Spartacist league were very friendly, not at all like i'd heard."

AARRGH! The Sparts must have spiked your drink!

"Also, if the swp haters"

Criticism of the SWP should not be taken as hatred. Although it is easy to come to hate people who abandon socialists, feminists and trade unionists in Iran and instead become cheerleaders for the Theocratic Regime.

by LO Wed Jul 18, 2007 23:23

"Don't know if it would justify a thread"

Come now... one of the biggest left wing meetings in the world does not deserve a thread on a left-wing independant media site? wise up

Anyway, thanks for posting the cpgb links, got a bit bored reading them after a while, it was all just inane criticism, no actual appraisal or discussion about wat the meetings were about. It also trys to claim that the swp speakers didn't mention socialism. I remember it being used quite a few times even in the opening meeting, even breaking out into a "workers united will never be defeated" chant which always feels good in a crowd of so many people.

Good crowd of the left groups outside the place too, sp weren't there though which was dissapointing, Spartacist league were very friendly, not at all like i'd heard.

Also, if the swp haters on this site will not pleasure me with any personal account of marxism what about socialism 2007? is it any good?

by John Cornford Wed Jul 18, 2007 15:03

"was anyone else at marxism 2007?

any chance of gettin a thread up about it?"

Don't know if it would justify a thread but here are some more reports from the CPGB perspective.

SWP and morality
An ideal opportunity to challenge the SWP leadership over its attitude to Martin Smith’s thuggery came at the Sunday afternoon session aptly entitled ‘Marxism and morality’. Peter Manson reports
http://www.cpgb.org.uk/worker/681/swp%20moralism.htm

Strategic thinking?
Over a thousand people packed into the July 5 opening rally of this year’s Marxism, held as usual in London’s Friends Meeting House. Mark Fischer reports
http://www.cpgb.org.uk/worker/681/swp%20rally.htm

Three faces of SWP
Phil Kent on how the SWP puts on different hats for different purposes
http://www.cpgb.org.uk/worker/681/swp%20x%203.htm

Sickening apologetics
SWP member Naz Massoumi addressed the session entitled ‘Iran - from revolution to rogue state’, reports James Turley
http://www.cpgb.org.uk/worker/681/swp%20iran.htm

Workerist class?
Chris Harman gave the opening speech in a session entitled ‘How important is class today?’, reports Dave Isaacson
http://www.cpgb.org.uk/worker/681/swp%20working%20class.htm

Good theorist fallen amongst economists
Mark Fischer reports on the session with Neil Davidson
http://www.cpgb.org.uk/worker/681/swp%20davidson.htm

Complacent indifference
Peter Manson reports on the session 'Scotland - on the road to independence?'
http://www.cpgb.org.uk/worker/681/swp%20scotland.htm

by L O Wed Jul 18, 2007 13:20

yeah, i was there. Didn't see a scuffle outside the hall. Got sum material about it though later on from i'm assuming member of cpgb. I'm sure what they said went on was grossly exagerated but then again theres got to be sum element of truth in it.

Don't think they should have stopped him comin into marxism and the "fighting unions" meeting if he was going to give an opinion and debate on something.
However if he was going into heckle and ruin the event he was right to be denied entry. We had a heckler at the "what next for respect" debate and it was quite annoying.

In conclusion, probably grossly exagerated but also probably sum element of truth. From wat i saw swp certainly do not stop people getting in for holding different views and opening them up to debate as there were quite a few debates like that ie. quite a good one about the need for dialectic when we have historical materialism etc

was anyone else at marxism 2007?

any chance of gettin a thread up about it?

by bouncer Mon Jul 16, 2007 20:31

I don't think Eoin was laughing at the news you brought us from the UK. He's one of our oldest activists who worked bravely against great odds to stop the war, particularly dealing with Afghani issues, and I sort of get the feeling that his comments were made from the European mainland yesterday during a short period on the internet. He might have picked up on a reference in my comment to other Irish material which was in truth humorous of nature. But in Ireland's indymedia, there are no bitter differences are examples of bullying which you've reported on in the UK.

as before Solidarity!
thank you for the warning! we won't let that type of thing happen here. We've been keeping an eye on the ferries from Wales and Liverpool for years now. & spot the troublemakers coming in.

by John Cornford Mon Jul 16, 2007 15:52

What makes you think this is a joke? If you bother to read the article at the link you will see that there are independent witnesses to this assault.

I think it stems out of frustration on the part of the sWP organiser. The SWP have suffered serious setbacks in Tower Hamlets RESPECT branch and the SWP Hold Simon responsible for some of them. Two councillors have left, 3 other RESPECT councillors have become supporters of Hands Off The People of Iran, an appalling vista for the SWP.

by Eoin Sun Jul 15, 2007 15:08

There was a satire page in a UCD paper called the Evil Gerald or something like it. Anyways, I thought I had found it again when I read the article above. I love reading http://theonion.com/ and thought maybe it was the Irish or UK version. Alas, is it a joke (or have you finished all the Koolaid)?

by bouncer Sun Jul 15, 2007 14:16

How about Stalinist Fascist Workers party? eh?
At first glance this case of conference / gig bullying not only reminds us (as you say) of the Stalinist rot which needs to be bitten out like a cancerous tumor from the gluteus maximus (buttock cheek) of British socialism. It invites comparison to recent behaviour in the other leftwing party which was once a workers' movement. I refer of course to the physical ejection and intimidation of Walter Wolfgang a CND veteran (vice-president indeed) & steering commitee member of the "stop the war" coalition (who thus sits with members your faction and the SWP) of the labour party at the conference of the New Labour party in the UK last year. http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=72237 We really have to (as you imply) nip this in the bud. I suggest close liason with MI5 to ascertain which teenagers borrowing books on Marx from the mobile library are likely to later cloak such anti-social behaviour through recruitment into quasi-cult organisations like the SWP and thus trick the forces of order whom it appears have their tentacles reaching into the high command of the SWP that they're not fledgling stabbing hoodie anarcho-gangsters.

We don't want these bully comrades!
Get a petition up!
Solidarity!