High Political Stakes

by Conor McHugh Mon Jan 24, 2005 10:21

This is a total long-shot Kevin, but do you happen to be serving time as a result of a certain action in Adare some years ago?

by Real Republican Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:01

Hugh Orde 'as Judge and Jury pointing finger without a shred of evidence.'

Nice line but it's OK to be Judge, Jury and Executioner!

What evidence would you actually believe??

The breakdown of the peace process will still be the fault of unionists even if it turns out that the evidence will support Orde's claim.

It's easy to bleat about injustice while at the same time dismiss the planned execution of a young mother as one of these things that happen in war time.

by Seamus O Raghaillaigh Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:24

Well "real republican" as you may not be aware, Mc Conville was a paid Brit informer and had gotten herself a few harsh warning before she got the ultimate informers sanction. For a mother with several children to act in such a stupid and irresponsible way is hard to believe. If you stand in the path of a train bearing down on you with horn blaring and refuse to move yourself out of danger how can you expect sympathy when you are mown down?

This whole Mc Conville affair is simply another big stick to beat Republicans with. Is it any worse then blinding mothers by shooting them at close range in the face with plastic bullets or shooting unarmed civillians in the back as the brits have done on many occassions?

The word of hugh orde is worthless as has been amply demonstrated by his collegues in the west midlands constabulary. remember their fine opinions on the Birmingham 6 among the many other traveties of justice?

S

by mise Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:31

The IRA killed Jean Mc Conville 30 years ago.

The British Firebombed Dresden 50 years ago killing 50,000 German men ,women and children in one night

So it must have been the IRA that done the bank robbery.

by Real republican Mon Jan 24, 2005 15:21

Seamus O Raghaillaigh, you know the facts.... but when it suits, cheerleaders of violence like you, would make a big issue when people don't get a fair hearing in a trial.

Frankly, theres no point debating extremists.

by Kevin Walsh Mon Jan 24, 2005 16:23

Conor, sorry to disappoint you. I am Kevin Walsh but I am from the West of Ireland. BE Civil engineering and doctorate in science and chemical engineering: I am not giving you my CV Conor but I found the comment a little offensive. But to answer part of your curiousity, I am Republican minded and I am proud of it and as we speak the Catholics in Derry now hold their heads up high and the business in central Derry flourishes. Their offspring now attend Queens which once was very hostile over 30 years ago. I want equality, Conor, for every child, as Martin McGuinness once said, Catholic and Protestant.

Kevin Walsh

by Conor Mon Jan 24, 2005 20:02

Thanks for that and sorry for offending you. No harm done hopefully.

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Please Mon Jan 24, 2005 23:48

Kevin: The word that resounds tonight from your article is 'Vacuum'

Ireland has experienced too many vacuums surely.

I include another word.......the word is Denial...this has been the blight that has prevented Justice over the decades.

Today, as the first Minister of Justice, is imprisoned, let us take this as an Audit and now let us move forward.

I note from the Phoenix that form Taoiseach Mr. Fitzgerald is joining people like Dr. Robinson, Professor Niamh Brennan, Minister McDowell and others in a grouping named Transparency Ireland.

What a positive move? We need the concerted effort and the rightful political collective responsibility and Ethical theme.

Consider the word Denial!!!! (I have taken these quotes from Stanley Cohen's book States of Denial)

'Denial is also studied in terms of cognitive psychology and decision making. This approach emphasises the normality of the process, and plays downs its emotional component.

Denial is a high=speed cognitive mechanism for processing information, like the computer command to 'delete' rather than 'save'.
But this assumes the Denial Paradox.

A further note concerns 'Collective Denial results from professional ethics, traditions of loyalty and secrecy, mutual reciprocity or codes of silence.

Myths are maintained that prevent outsiders knowing about discernable information, there are unspoken arrangements for concerted or strategic ignorance.....' This could be about the 'convenience' not to know.

The Taoiseach and others meet with Sinn Fein representatives tomorrow, let's hope that reflection invokes balance.

I note a comment from the news tonight, Mr. Burke would not be in prison today if the Flood Tribunal had not given the powers the Criminal Assets Bureau... Yes, Mr. Burke's sentence relates only to non declaration of tax and the evidence that it was not declared via CAB.

The Peace Process is now a decade of input from people in the US, North and South, paramilitaries etc. Should the word 'criminality' rightfully be bandied about to destroy the potential of the process.

Michelle

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice Activist. Thu Feb 03, 2005 00:52

I have been scrolling through old articles and noticed this one.

Tonight I heard just the end of the news and think an announcement has been made about decommissioning.

Maybe someone can confirm the statement from the IRA.

Personally, I feel that such a concerted effort has been given to the Peace Process over the last 10 years, that it is necessary to englighten people to the advantages to be gained for the Island of Ireland to proceed in line with all the terms stated in the Belfast Agreement.

The 'Vacuum' is now a reality. Vacuums are about uncertainty and there is enough of that in life......

I note that PSNI Chief Constable Hugh Order has said that he would be willing to work with a Sinn Fein Justice Minister should devolved government return to Ireland (post talks next month outcome)........

It is time to reflect, ponder, think.......Peace is worth the effort.


Gandhi
'You have to be the change you want to see'


Michelle

by Noel Thu Feb 03, 2005 15:05

The IRA throwing their toys out of their pram is the petulent last gasp act of an irrelevent organisation. Hopefully they'll go for an endless collective sulk somewhere.

The vast majority of the people of Ireland want nothing whatsoever to do with them.
Forget the undefeated army nonsense.
They have been defeated by the will of the Irish people.

by Ali H. Fri Feb 04, 2005 16:23

Sinn Fein voters can see through the bluster of Ahern, Kenny and Rabbitte and it is highly likely that their share of the vote will rise further in the North at the SDLPs expense and will probably remain static in the South.

Blaming the IRA and Sinn Fein for all of the problems North and South is of course most convenient for FF, FG and Labour as otherwise they would have to come clean on party corruption. Notably there has been no debate on Berties cheques or Martin Cullen's creative employment of a female campaign worker for unspecified and unjestified "services".

Finally of course it allows the DUP to continue not having a Taig about the place which suits them just fine.

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics - Please Fri Feb 04, 2005 20:56

But did you ever hear about 'Throwing the Baby out with the Bath Water'........

I recall days studying law (yes I never got there, I got brain damage in a horse riding accident instead), I recall vaguely studying about the approach used by the British for Juvenile 'criminals'. They used a kind of motto and referred to t 'Short Sharp Shock'.
Treatment.

Since before Christmas and the media enhanced perceptions; I believe that tthe words of Revd. Ian Paisley.....basically to be an insult to all members involved in what I would regard as serious 'negotiations' .

Photographs....and name calling about Sack-cloth and Ashes surely were childish gesture of an over excited narcisstic type man. Tthere was that childlike mockery......in critical peace process negotiations. The outcome would be a bonus for Peace and true democratic objectives..... Why let subjective Narcissus people be allowed to spoil opportunities for the majority of people on the Island of Ireland.

Ireland could have been used as a proto-type model for other newly formed nations. Just take some time to review the commitment of the people subject to horrific war in Iraq to go and vote in the hope of establishing a democracy.....

This is not a lecture. I just wish that the media hype, vanity and narcissus behaviour of certain inviduauls key to the Peace Process, could be seen for what it is.

We now have a 'Short Sharp Shock' but let us reflect......I include this piece from Henri Nouwen (Catholic Priest) and hope that people can look within their hearts and contribute.......

'But whenever you do come upon this Silence, it seems as though you have received a gift, one which is 'Promising' in the true sense of the word. The promise of this silence is that new life can be born. It is this silence which is the silence of Peace and Prayer, because you are brought back to the other who is leading you

In this silence you lose the feeling of being compulsive and you find yourself a person who can be himself along with other things and other people.

Then you realise that you can do many things, but it isn't necessary. It is the silence of the 'poor in spirit', where you learn to see your life in its proper perspectives. In this silence the false pretenses fade away and you can see the world again with a certain distance, and in the midst of all your cares......you can pray with the psalmist'.


mmc