drumcree.

by Seáinín Tue Jul 08, 2003 04:54

Not this shite again. I don't know which side I despise most. They really seem to deserve each other 'up there'.

by Seán Tue Jul 08, 2003 10:55

Did Orangemen always want to walk down Garvaghy Road?
What about Obens(spelling) street?
If Orangemen "want civil rights, and liberty of religious expression and stuff, just like everyone else", why are they not willing to talk to the Garvaghy road residents committee nor the Parades' Commission?
Is the Orange Order a racist organisation?
What is the song "The Sash" about?
And Billy Boys?
Does the Orange Order support the Good Friday Agreement?
Why do Unionists call the Agreement, the Belfast Agreement?
Can someone not a member of the Orange Order become Leader of the UUP, if technically yes, how likely is this?

by phi - explaining the tricolour to the foreigners. Tue Jul 08, 2003 13:31

meanwhile for today's "Day Count"...

have a look @ the Orange version of history.
http://www.iowc.org/1997/news/drumcree2.html
The most recent Drumcree troubles began over 36 hours between 5/7 and 7/7 1997.

This Summer is the 6th summer since.

today's solution: fly the balloon over rthe barricade, play the songs mixed with techno.

Solutions tried in the past which failed....
(tractors)(bulldozers)(heavy lorry) (articulated truck) (weight of numbers) (small explosive devices [pipebombs]) (shotgun rounds) (load curses in Ulster Scots which is a most terrifying tongue).

by Seán Tue Jul 08, 2003 14:48

Possible Solutions(if not at least steps towards real solutions):
Talking to and engaging with the reprsentatives of those who live on the road and who object to the march taking place where they live.

Engaging with the commission set up to deal with the marching issue.

by pat c Tue Jul 08, 2003 16:25

all of those who claim to be socialist could agree that the garvaghy road residents have the right tolive in peace. they could note that 12 people (including 2 ruc men) have been killed by loyalists who want to assert "protestant civil rights" and march down the garvaghyroad.

by contentshuz - helping protesters and protestants the world over Tue Jul 08, 2003 17:02

but as the Garvaghy Road has been mentioned.
a map.

Also forthcoming for ipsiphi's marching season will be a glossary of words for
the non-Hiberno-English/ non-Ulster-Scots /non-Gaeilge / non-MidUlsterHibernoEnglish speakers.

part 1.
gurrier/gouger = the sort of person who generally fucks up your RTS day.
[there is a moral in this isn't there?]
bairn = child/kid.
wee = small/little.

we shall do helping catholics and protesters the world over on the other discrimination thread -ok?

there is an "Irish Times" sourced map 5/7/97 at
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/images/maps/garvaghy.htm

by Seán Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:56

Of course I believe that the Garvaghy road residents should be able to live in peace from sectarian triumphalist marches.
I was merely trying to point out the hypocracy, intransigence not to mention the sectarian attitude of the Orange Order that don´t even engage with the Garvaghy Road Residents nor the Parades Commission.

by pat c Wed Jul 09, 2003 11:18

it wasnt directed towards you. it was a general comment.

by contentshuz. - helping people and protesters the world over. Wed Jul 09, 2003 13:40

put this line and this following line only

did the garvaghy road exist in 1690?

into these search engines:
http://google.com
http://ungoogle.com
http://ask.com

google and ungoogle agree.
"tribal instincts to die for"
http://www.petehamill.com/nydnews70802.html

by contentshuz. - being rude to American occasional visitors to Ireland, not giving a samn about Starbucks, having a Wed Jul 09, 2003 19:42 i am addicted to interactive technology= we all are. postingpics, of Goldstein /Snowey in the robes

reading a WSM pamphlet of all things.
which thou shalt find on page 518
of the Indymedia Hymn book...

or go directly to the WSM.
http://struggle.ws/wsm/pdf/pamphlet/orangeorder.html

for those who consider this unfair to treat upon the Irish / Ulster Scots Protestant Cultural/Ethnic tradition in such a way on this Armagh/Discrimination thread,
then I would recommend reading the last three psalms of the psalter.

The Orange Order is bigoted, intolerant, hypocritical and supremacist, The Orange Order does a dis-service to all those who carry the Irish / UlsterScots Protestant Cultural / Ethnic tradition.

& thus they ought be stopped.
Reclaim your street.

contentshuz has finished this thread now, and will move on to other areas for the rest of the Marching Season, Garvaghy Road will indeed be discussed though.

by (that's my way of saying you're a dude!). - fun and games may make good days out, but we always need brains., Wed Jul 09, 2003 19:44

.

by contentshuz Thu Jul 10, 2003 19:42

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=27926
armagh will wait.

by contentshuz. Fri Jul 11, 2003 15:54

An Orange March has been called for Dublin, starting on Sackville St (O'ConnellSt. for taigs) and walking around the block (Rutland Sq, where the Grand Lodge Of Orange Marchers had their HQ till Ireland gained home rule).(Parnell Sq for taigs).
There will be kicking basslines.
dancing, sectarianism, police and political representatives, and possibly uppers as well.

by containing the contentshuz Fri Jul 11, 2003 19:42

in Australia.
Grand Orange Lodge of Australia

Postal Address PO BOX 26 Croyden
New South Wales 2132 Australia

Now as we are learning Orange men are very _sensitive_ when it comes to history.
¿We _all_ know how Australia was made- don't we?

The aboroginals were dreamt up they say, we say:
The polynesians boarded their boats and setsail accross the ocean. Then The French sighted it but didn't land, and Captain Cook (the original) [not Borroughs.not23] did the claiming.

The British [old fashioned nasty imperialist type] used the continent as a prison.

Lot's of Irish people were sent there.
Observe the orange australia history:
"The first gathering and meetings of Orangemen took place in the early days of the colony in New South Wales amongst military personnel. They held warrants issued by the Grand Lodges of the United Kingdom and lodges consisted of brethren of the various regiments, several of them being 17th, 50th, and 63rd".

oh dear, orangemen didn't get there like the polynesians nor the aboroginals nor the theiving Irish, they were soldiers.

let us go on.....

by Yippee Fri Jul 11, 2003 19:43

Thank bollocks that Trimble didn't allow the Mosque to be built. Islam is an abomination.

by contenshuz23º Fri Jul 11, 2003 19:51

Canada.
big place.
The French sighted it and the British last fought the US there. 1810. they lost.

Lot's of Orangmen in Canada.

now i really like _really_ recommend visiting this site:
http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/oraben/

like _really_

Canada is where the Orangeman has done his level best to _reach out_ to people's of other faiths traditions and cultural beliefs.
I shall leave a copy of their "Native American Indian in a Sash" [it is real] on Canada.IMC tomorrow.
Now if we remember (the keen reader and me, as a post-capitalist semioticist writer I like to feel a participant in the ontological exchange) it has been nine days since my bicycle was stolen. [read "Gregor Samsa awoke" http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=60235] and thus nine days and 154 years since Garibaldi started his hunger strike in Rome an event which precipitated increased support amongst the Gramsci-ist faction of Sardinia for his "united Italy" project.
Orangemen like Garibaldi in Canada.
The Garibaldi Italian Orange Lodge celebrates 65 years this year and will be marching tomorrow in Toronto.

we shall go on (the next is a head-fk]

by containing my 23 contentshuzness - (sorry for the photo editors) Fri Jul 11, 2003 19:59

Ghana was the 20º country in Africa to gain it's Independence or "Home Rule" as Orange men call it.

The flag was officially hoisted 1957.03.06, It is believed that the black star on the flag of Ghana, the lonestar of African freedom, is taken from the flag of the Black Star Line. This shipping line was founded by Marcus Garvey in June 1919 and would take new negro colonists back to Africa. It closed in 1922.

In 1922 the Orange Lodge moved from their offices on what was then Rutland Sq in Dublin.
They still refer to what is today Parnell Sq. as being Rutland.

Parnell was the Irish protestant who led the Home Rule Party.
Rutland was a English duke notorious for not paying his debtors, hence the expression...
you are a Rutland.


In Ghana the conditions for joining the Orange Order are different to other countries.
Here David trimble "likes blackmen".

by iosaf mac diarmada Fri Jul 11, 2003 20:00

i hope you do too.
:-)

by contentshuz with a tinfoilhat and umbrella Fri Jul 11, 2003 20:30

now go to Canada Victoria IMC for the photo of West African preacher the Most worshipful Atteh Mensah Former Grand Master of Togo Orange Lodge which did for various reasons go through a "dormant" patch till the Most Worshipful Grand Master Reverend Martin Smyth, M.P., B.A., B.D. managed to get through the sticky language problem and allowed meetings to be held in French (a catholic tongue) and local West African languages.

The Order in Africa works hard at being _nice_
even the Martin Smyth is nicer than the local Irish version.
their drums are varied, and local songs are also heard.
and onwards.....

by Ytzhak Braithwaite Fri Jul 11, 2003 22:34 ytzhak at telus dot net

So what's your gripe with the nasty pic and post on indiemedia Victoria? Black people? Foreigners? the Orangemen? or are you just hating all with that article and using political unconsciousness as a tool? No matter -- it's a very clear. But despite the hate, the message of Ireland still stands strong and should not be judged by the few who would exploit opression to use it as a voice for hate.

The struggle continues...

peace

by - Fri Jul 11, 2003 22:50

http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2003/07/15420

i don't like fascistic bigoted sexist groups who stop proper reclaiming of our streets.
like for everyone.


THIS THREAD IS NOW UPDATED TO LINK WITH OTHER GLOBAL POSTINGS.
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=60370

by rooster Sat Jul 12, 2003 19:52

does not talk to the "residents"groups because they are almost always fronted by provos or ex-provos, so why should they?

by contentshuz Sun Jul 13, 2003 12:39

was in 1913 in Ireland, the Curragh Mutinty saw officers of the British Army, lay their commision on the table, with a refusal to enforce "Home Rule" throughought the island of Ireland.
The Curragh Mutiny by Orange Lodge members of the British Army meant that Ireland was partitioned within ten years.

If the representative groups who live in "contehtshuz" issues are "fronted" by SF people or those who were involved in the most recent troubles of northern ireland, than I suggest that gives a small clue why Orange Order marches are unwelcome on those streets.

Between 1974 and 1976 it might have been possible to wish that all supporters of either SF or the IRA were interned illegaly in various detention centres of northern ireland, but now, they live on their streets, in their neighbourhoods.

The Orange Order have now celebrated "their day", and in most places where they marched their marches past without incident.

The Orange Order still refuses to talk to the residents of the Garvaghy Road. To say "oh but the Garvaghy Road are Sinn Fein and Republicans is a bit silly isn't it?".
¿THE KKK won't talk to the jews of Brookyln before they walk through their streets?
¿Opus Dei have been carrying their crucifixtion scene for hundreds of years, and they won't talk to the muslims of Barcelona's RAvel before they go flagellating themselves down the street?

The Orange position has always been based on supremacist presumption and an erronous constituionaly heretical belief in Sallic Law.

ought I explain?????

by Setanta Thu Apr 08, 2004 01:27

In responce to Seán:

"Did Orangemen always want to walk down Garvaghy Road?"
As far as I know, they have walked that road since the lodge was formed.

"If Orangemen "want civil rights, and liberty of religious expression and stuff, just like everyone else", why are they not willing to talk to the Garvaghy road residents committee nor the Parades' Commission?"

They are and they have.

"Is the Orange Order a racist organisation?"

No.

"What is the song "The Sash" about?"

Its about an Orangeman who leaves Ireland, but remembers his dad and Ireland and the sash.

"And Billy Boys?"

What about them?

"Does the Orange Order support the Good Friday Agreement?"

Yes.... and no. I'm sure there are some members who don't and some that do. Its not a political organisation, so the question is a bit irrelevant.

"Why do Unionists call the Agreement, the Belfast Agreement?"

Do we? Dunno ... it was signed in Belfast... maybe that's why.

"Can someone not a member of the Orange Order become Leader of the UUP, if technically yes, how likely is this?"

Yes. How likely..? Hmmm ... more likely in the future due to the UUP's motion to sever the links between them and the Order.

by Caoimhin ni Mheadar Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:19 caoimhinmears at eircom dot net County Mayo

The Orange men should not be allowed to force their way down the Garvaghy Road, if the residents on the Garvaghy Road do not want a march being forced down their throat.