Inside the Anglo Irish - The secret tapes

by John Maloney Tue Jun 25, 2013 20:49

They should be handcuffed just like any other criminal..

My 2 cents..

by dave Tue Jun 25, 2013 21:03

Well what i think these two yuppies who never worked an honest day in their lives,should have their passports and assets frozen until further notice.

How the gards can be asleep during all of this is astounding stuff,they had this in thier possesion for FIVE YEARS!!!!!

Say what you like about the yanks but when they get on it,they get on it,these guys would be slap bang in custody by now..

by T Tue Jun 25, 2013 22:24

First two points. You said the 'sheeple' rejected in the referendum the proposal to change the constitution to allow the Dail to hold criminal inquires. It was rejected and rightly because it gave the Dail power over the judiciary and it have given the Dail potentially abusive power.

The second is regards Bernie Madoff who ran the multi-billion dollar Ponzi scheme. One hears so much in public and the media that 'at least the Americans sent people to jail' and Madoff is in most cases given as the example and indeed he did go. But what people refuse to recognize is that Madoff gave himself up and admitted to the crime, so they couldn't but put him in jail. Other than that very very few people have gone to jail and in fact the term too big to jail is now in use and had Madoff not admitted it, he probably would not have got to jail. So I think referring to the application of the "full weight of the law" just did not happen in the US or anywhere else for that matter.

That minor quibble aside, it is clear practically nothing is going to happen to any of these people. At the very best we will see some kind of token conviction so as to toss some crumbs to the public and we are likely to see a long drawn out and very very expensive inquiry / tribunal.

What should be clear is that it is quite clear people in FF knew that €7 billion was not enough -I mean even Noonan is reported today as saying at the time he suspected that would not be the final figure and a lot more people in government and the civil service were aware of the fraud perpetrated on the public. Even now they should refuse to pay off any more of the debts / loans of Anglo. The trouble is though the debt is with the ECB / IMF and that borrowed money was used to pay off the bond-holders of the original debt used to finance the bank and all the speculative loans. Ideally if the Irish government could pursue the bond-holders and get the money back since the money they were given was not theirs for giving. Perhaps the Irish government should ask the NSA to track down and find these people and then get a loan of a few drones to go after them. But joking aside if governments were serious they would be pursuing all the various financial terrorists out there in are wrecking economies, destroying people's lives and terrifying them.

I think this would be a good point also to urge anyone who has access to the tapes / audio-files to duplicate them before they get accidently destroyed before any tribunal starts up.

Matina Devlin in the Irish Independent today quite rightly says:

Emigration is at famine levels because Anglo bankers lied. Workers are on the dole because Anglo bankers lied. Homeowners can't pay their mortgages because Anglo bankers lied. Public service cutbacks, especially in health and education, are causing suffering because Anglo bankers lied. And Ireland lost its economic sovereignty because Anglo bankers lied.

Not just recklessness, but deception on the part of bankers protecting their broken bank – and their own skins by extension – brought Ireland to the verge of ruin.....

The full text of the piece is at: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/martina-de....html

And at the end of the piece Matina has written: How odd they should only surface now, when it's too late to reverse the wealth-stripping of citizens that was activated by the bank guarantee.

Indeed how odd is that? It is no coincidence and there has to be more to it. It would seem that in every case when huge sums of money are involved the power system -i.e. the elites at the top whoever they really are, always rally around to ensure the money gets away and those committing the crime will never be in a position to be caught and in all cases the costs are borne by the public. In fact it would seem it is simply part of the agenda to strip away all the social gains and to use the crisis generated as a result of allowing this to happen to attack the public sphere, democracy itself and to further concentrate ownership of resources (ala waves of austerity and privatisation -sale of state assets) and concentrate wealth. And we know that both of these things have happened. The rich have actually got richer in this crisis -generated by them -by their technocractic cronies who run the system on their behalf.

In some ways this is like a hit-man. The hit-man does the actual crime and expects to not get caught and to get paid. The focus tends to be on the hit-man and not the people who hired him. In the same way the hit-men are the Drumm's, Fitzpatricks and people who foisted the bailout on the public. They got away and got their portion of money whether it was big salaries and bonuses at the time, benefits for govt people. It is very likely that transfers of money were made to off-shore accounts to these key actors by the people who setup the system to fail. And those who set it up operate on a much higher level. These are the really big players -the international financial elite who arranged for the almost non-existent regulation, ridiculous cheap credit by ridiculously low interest rates. In the case of Ireland the idiots in FF gave tax breaks to fuel the already raging fire that was the property bubble. However the real people pulling the strings are the ones who have gained from the "hit". These are the bond-holders who have made an absolute killing and continue to as billions are received in interest payments per year on the government loans. They will also be the vultures to snap up any state assets for sale. And they probably the same people in control in major multi-national corporations that benefits from cheaper labour brought by austerity, tax breaks brought in to "stimulate" the economy and "rental" from ownership of things like gas, water supply, road tolls, waste collection and so on and last but not least the interest payments from the massive mortgages that were foisted on people who were defrauded into taking them on because we have to remember during the boom there was the most unprecedented media blitz to get people to take on huge debt because there was a lot of fear-mongering about getting on the property ladder now as prices were going up forever. It is of course a separate issue why people were so gullible but one would assume that since these people are not going to be debt slaves for the next 30+ years they hopefully will be more hesitant about swallowing propaganda and take a critical view of all decisions.

by Brian Clarke - AllVoices Tue Jun 25, 2013 23:28

Nothing less than Revolution. Leadership is required. It's like Brazil you can march a million people up to the top of the hill and back again but that will not achieve much. The nest time people march to Leinster House they need to do so in sufficient numbers to occupy it , maintain that occupation and take the levers of power for the people until there is a genuine democracy with a level playing field. Iceland is being censored by the mainstream media. It is the blueprint until we can take the Venezuelan model. WE are all slaves to the corrupt Fed. We need proper leadership and as much unity as possible!

Calm

by Rational Ecologist. Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:32

Who benefits; why release the tapes now? Who's pulling our strings now?

by ciara Wed Jun 26, 2013 14:49

Point taken on bernie madoff,but what about the enron scandal,they let nobody away with much there and there were a lot of prosecutions,where a lot of the criminals involved were not so co-operative.

The reason i use the word sheeple,is that they were not fully informed as to the motivations as to why the government held a referendum to hold enquiries,that was the sole purpose,for situations like this.

It really frustrates me that the irish people didn't inform themselves on this,and just had an automatic negative reaction and just voted no.

by gary Wed Jun 26, 2013 18:11

Is a long drawn out enquiry what we need in this recession? We will be lining lawyers pockets.

Just a question to think about: Where is the funding coming from for drum and co's lawyers,is it the money they illegally siphoned off the public?

Shouldnt there assets be frozen? And given free legal aid like the rest of us poor peasants..

by dave Wed Jun 26, 2013 19:23

They sang the german national anthem the original one in a mocking tone,not only that they had a go at the regulator aswell effectively calling him stupid,which i might add he was..

To add insult to injury they laughed about knowingly bankrupting a nation,they had CARNAL KNOWLEDGE of what they were doing.

I hope to god we don't just sit there and take it.

There is a protest on tommorrow on june the 27 th at one ' o clock at the foot of dail eireann there will hopefully be a large congregation.

I would advise anybody reading this if they can turn up on their lunch hour to show their solidarity to the public who have been wronged.

Every person counts,and hopefully this will be a good turnout to show our government what we really think,sitting there and shouting at the tv wont help..You wont be heard.

Let's bear in mind what they have done is a criminal offence,they knew what they were doing,and the full implications of this,it can clearly be heard on the tapes,and i agree with the first poster, they should be handcuffed just like any other criminal.

by T Thu Jun 27, 2013 21:27

There is a good piece over on the SWP site and it is worth republishing here....

The Anglo tapes have given us a rare glimpse of how big business operates in Ireland. They show how:

* Directors of Anglo Irish Bank plucked figures ‘from their arse’ and demanded €7 billion from the government.
* This figure was only a teaser to lure the Irish state into a bail out that eventually cost €28 billion.
* Anglo used the state guarantee to lure billions in deposits into its bank.
* They knew this was ‘abuse’ but did not care so long as they were not caught.
* They also knew their own bank was on the verge of bankruptcy but did not care as long as nationalisation guaranteed their jobs.

If we lived in a half just country, the Criminal Assets Bureau would have already arrived at the houses of these directors and arrested them on a charge of economic treason. They would be forced to forfeit all their wealth as a small punishment for the damage they caused the country.

But this is Ireland and politicians cry crocodile tears and do nothing

The tapes, however, also raise more serious issues about how this country is run and why there is a fundamental contradiction between democracy and capitalism.
On September 18th, 2008 executives at the Anglo-Irish Bank knew they were on the verge of bankruptcy. They were not only facing a ‘liquidity problem’ – a shortage of ready cash – but were insolvent.

Yet twelve days later, the Irish state guaranteed banks to the tune of €440 billion and Anglo was included.

All of which begs a question: Why did the state, which supposedly manages the people’s money, not know what was going on in Anglo-Irish? Why did it so recklessly issue a guarantee for an insolvent bank?

The reason is that banks were ‘private institutions’ which were owned by capitalists and which were under no obligation to tell an elected government the full facts.

To make matters worse the Irish state had hired a US company; Merrill Lynch, to give it a report on these banks. Merrill Lynch charged €7 million for its advice and told the government that:
‘It is important to stress that at present, liquidity concerns aside, all of the Irish banks are profitable and well capitalised’.

Merrill Lynch had acted as an underwriter for Anglo-Irish bank and had previously censored a report from one of its own agents that had raised the alarm bell. Yet here was an elected government turning to a US firm to get information on what was happening in a private Irish institution – and being lied to by both!

As long as there is private ownership of the main centres of the economy, this type of behaviour will re-occur.

The tapes have shocked many people in the way that the ‘lads’ who run the bank appear to be joking and mocking. Most of the time, we think of bankers are ponderous, serious people who know a lot about the mysterious realm of high finance.

But when they appear – as they really are – as cowboys pulling off a scam, the madness of what happened is revealed.

There is a simple lesson we should draw: if a few cowboys could cause a country so much damage, then the wealth of our society should not be controlled by an elite.

We need openness, transparency and above all public control of that wealth – if we are ever to have a real democracy.

by ciara Fri Jun 28, 2013 14:15

I looked at the socialist party website,they had a very good article on it indeed.

Lets get back to the reality of what will happen after the anglo scandal..

What will happen will be a big lengthy inquiry which will cost the tax payer,ie you and me,even more money.

Where these assholes, if they do choose to arrive at the inquiry will be lawyered up to the hilt(and out of what money??).

They should have their assets frozen and only be entitled to free legal aid,but will that happen???

This ''inquiry'' will drag out for years and years only lining the pockets of lawyers setting them up for life,while we get no justice and have to foot the bill of it.

Call that justice?

by Starfish Sat Jun 29, 2013 03:16

According to the Independent today, the release of tapes has been stopped on request of the DPP.

Can you say damage limitation and a cover up?

by Starfish Sat Jun 29, 2013 03:18

^^^Previous comment should read 'According to the Irish Times', not Independent

by ciara Sat Jun 29, 2013 13:47

The lawyers will have a field day with this arguing about the fact the media got their hands on it..

They will argue its a biased,but what about the crime that was comitted,surely nothing can detract from that?

Well in fairness to the media,if it didnt get to them,nothing would have been done about it..

I feel the gardai where shamed into action by the public and media. If we didnt get to hear about it - simply nothing would be done.

It is in the public interest to know what more is on those tapes - i dont want to hear about these revelations in ten years time over a costly inquiry..

Its just not good enough!

by W. Finnerty Sat Jun 29, 2013 16:16

Reply to "ciara" at Sat Jun 29, 2013 13:47 ...

Maybe they will, but not if I can help to prevent it.

God willing, it is my intention to keep on trying to expose the unconvicted criminals in the judicial branch of our government who have been "aiding and abetting" the banksters in major ways -- by deed and omission -- for the past several years now (as I see the overall situation).

Related registered letter to Chief Justice Susan Denham, the ENTIRE contents of which she, and ALL of her legal profession colleagues, continue to COMPLETELY ignore (as far as I know):
http://www.humanrightsireland.com/ChiefJusticeSusanDenh...l.htm

Related Links:

1) "Chief Justice Susan Denham, government corruption, crime, cover ups, impunity, William Finnerty ..."
http://tinyurl.com/nmhpapm

2) "Former Chief Justice John L Murray, government corruption, crime, cover ups, impunity, William Finnerty ..."
http://tinyurl.com/o2scbhz

by W. Finnerty Sat Jun 29, 2013 20:25

"Minister for Social Protection Joan Burton has said she wants to see a parliamentary inquiry into the banking collapse and circumstances surrounding the State bank guarantee resourced with an experienced lawyer and a forensic accountant."

The above excerpt is from the following RTE location:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0629/459651-burton-calls-fo...uiry/
(Updated: 18:04, Saturday, 29 June 2013)

Yes; and, I would like to see a parliamentary inquiry into why Minister for Social Protection Joan Burton TD has been able to get clean away (so far) with subjecting me to what I see as an extremely serious orgy of ongoing criminal abuse since I applied for the old age pension on March 16th 2011.

In anticipation, at the time (in March 2011), of additional further Government (Executive, Legislative, and Judicial) criminal abuse and punishment relating to my ongoing efforts to challenge government crime by peaceful and lawful means, I sent a copy of my pension application through the registered (on March 16th 2011) to Minister Burton: in the hope that by doing so yet more such punishments and abuses might be avoided.

In the event, Minister Burton -- without any valid explanation of any kind from her or anybody else in her Government Department -- appears, in addition to unlawfully blocking all of my disability and old age pension payments, to have COMPLETELY ignored the ENTIRE contents of my March 16th 2011 registered letter to her: including the "To Whom It May Concern Letter" from my former GP (Dr Michael McCavert) which VERY CLEARLY stated I was suffering from Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder as a direct consequence of my lengthy efforts to challenge government wrongdoing. All of the main information, including a scanned copy of Dr McCavert's letter, and scanned copies of the Post Office receipts and delivery note relating to the registered letter I sent to Minister Burton on March 16th 2011, can be viewed at the following www location:
http://www.humanrightsireland.com/SWSO/Longford/Letter1...1.htm

As I see things, the arrogance, callousness, viciousness, and hypocrisy of this VERY NASTY woman really does take some beating.

Related Link:
"Minister Joan Burton, government corruption, crime, cover ups, impunity, William Finnerty ..."
http://tinyurl.com/noj7jc8

by ciara Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:55

She has a lot to answer for i feel. Her job bridge exploits are one reason i think her post should be looked at with a more critical eye.

Job bridge was supposed to be set up for people to use as a stepping stone to find work,instead it has been used and abused by employers to bolster up their staff for free and she doesn't seem to care.

I had been on one of these schemes,and i watched three people have their hours cut,(and eventually pushed out the door),while a few job bridge staff were taken on..

Joan burton herself was heckled at a jobs fair in dundalk,where they told her where to go.

Which can be seen below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMbo2Gwa6WY

by ciara Sun Jun 30, 2013 19:37

I now hear off that labour have disrupted a lesbian & gay pride day in dublin today.

What transpired was a group of protesters came upon the labour bus trying to affiliate itself with the gay pride march,and they basically sat in front of the bus stopping the whole parade.

Shame on labour for being there,if they werent present this wouldn't have happened.

Ruari quinn and joan burton were hanging out of the top of the bus desperately waving for their photo op,when they should have been instead utilising all their god given hours to fixing the mess they made..

by Con Carroll Sun Jun 30, 2013 19:46

there remains a number of questions which need to be answered
who gave authority for the tapes to be made public. 2. who leaked the tapes to Paul Williams. 3. why now, who's political interest are they serving. 4 why weren't tapes handed to DPP office
since when did crime correspondent Paul Williams. have the economic and political class interests of Irish affairs
wee we know that he attempted to become a Progressive Democrat candidate in the election of 2002. Dublin South Central. he failed to get nominated
his brother his a member of Gardai
if there is ever to be a court hearing, will those who the finger point to. be crying about prejudicial trial. since the tapes were given to Williams

by gary Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:39

It is claimed to be a biased trial due to the media leakage,but if the media didnt have these tapes - we certainly wouldnt have heard about in in a news briefing from our trusty government.

The inquiry is needed allegedly because this was a 'complicated fraud',which is why we need a long inquiry according to a top lawyer in Ireland yesterday.

I dont see whats complicated about the striaghtforward transaction that took place (with no real questions or resistance) between anglo and our government.

They should be dragged through the courts just like any other scumbag would.

by oliver Mon Jul 01, 2013 14:42

also, in whose class interests were the posters torn down?

by oliver Mon Jul 01, 2013 15:33

Micheal Noonan has warned there will be sanctions against anybody who fails to appear before a planned inquiry into this matter . I fully agree with Mr Noonan on this point , such acts need to be fully investigated and those responsible punished if they aren't prepared to recompense for the damage they have done.

by gary Mon Jul 01, 2013 19:32

These guys need to be brought to court and slapped in jail QUCKLY,not ten years time for christs sake,do our government have any cop on?

They should be brought to justice swiftly,and not lawyered up to the hilt on ill gotten gains,have they had the good sense to freeze their assests yet??

Questions still need to be asked.

by dave Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:00

Since the tapes on drumm broke he has since moved his money out of anglos reach to his wife bank account in the US,as a deliberate attempt to defraud the bank and state.

His wife who had not had a bank account for 10 years now suddenly had 15 personal bank accounts opened in her name!

by ollie Tue Jul 02, 2013 15:37

While it's doubtful that Drumm would sue indymedia ie , to write that his actions were "a deliberate attempt to defraud the bank and state" does leave the site open .

"what would be seen by many to be a deliberate attempt to defraud the bank and state" sounds clumsier but is safer.

by dave Tue Jul 02, 2013 18:39

ok ollie point taken,will take note on that. although drumm would have some brass neck to go around suing left right and centre,given the evidence is out there for everyone to access..

by ciara Tue Jul 02, 2013 21:14

There was an interview with irish central (irish american website) and david drumm,where he comes out with fighting words all the way.

The arrogance of this pompous fraudulent so and so,it just beggars belief for me,absolutely unbelievable stuff.

He is also found on the anglo tapes as referring to the irish people as the fucking irish people and contemptous subjects.

What a fucking prick! Throw him in jail just like any other scumbag!

Here is an excerpt below:

''But doesn't this tape extract prove that Anglo knew the final bill would be much higher?

''....There was no attempt whatsoever to conceal the extent of the cash flow problems from the Central Bank and the Regulator. On the contrary they were all too intimately aware of just how critical things were in Anglo Irish Bank along with all other Irish banks.....''

If anything in the tapes,there were efforts to conceal the true extent of the damage,by first declaring we will only take 7 billion off of them,instead of the higher figure,the 7 billion was purposefully put out there as a teaser,and more was to follow,from the beginning (and from their conversations) they were not UPFRONT about the true extent of the problems anglo were facing.

They even laughed saying they would never be able to pay it back,if anything this man has proven he is a liar aswell as a con.

by T Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:44

Rather than jail bankers the government would rather jail the person or persons who leaked the Anglo Irish tapes. It is reported today that the Gardai have been told to find out who the whistle blower is.

The excuse that they are giving is that it would damage any criminal case that might be brought forward later. This is a lame excuse. The question asked before was why were the tapes released now 5 years after they were made. And here is one possible scenario.

It appears the tapes were possibly with the Gardai during some portion of that time although it has yet to be fully established. Either way the leaker may have been somebody close to the "case" and after 5 years came to the very obvious conclusion that absolutely nothing was being done and would be done about these tapes and therefore they decided to leak them out of their own frustration.

The government once they were leaked couldn't do much and had to go with their storm but now that it is dying down they need to shut the whistle blower up before any more comes out. It was fine when the tapes covered aspects that in effect only damaged Fianna Fail but now that Alan Dukes formerly of Fine Gael got some attention, then the mud was sticking there too. Besides with the story getting legs and causing a political storm in Germany where it the Anglo tapes and the funny men on them got a lot of coverage, the government are feeling the heat and looking stupid.

So either they are aware of other more damaging material, or they've had enough of this and as with all these matters the key rule is that layers of the elite do not or extremely rarely put their own fellow elite people in jail or make them pay for their actions, even if they may not actually like them or detest them. So for example there are probably many in the power establishment who strongly dislike each other, but taking political action against them that appeases the masses is something else. It is a completely different matter if it is just personal infighting in the form of High Court orders against each other. Thus following this rule, that would explain why the government / power elite are now attacking the whistle-blower rather than getting to the heart of the matter.

The other interesting part is that as far as I can tell and perhaps people would confirm otherwise; it was Paul Williams who wrote the story in the Irish Independent which begs the question as to whether he knows who the leaker is? If he does and taking into account he appears to be quite close to Garda because he depends on them a lot, then were elements within the Garda also very frustrated about the Anglo Irish tapes and decided to leak them. Could this be part of a spat between Shatter and the Garda although it seems the Anglo tapes are much bigger than any such spat.

Lastly if there are audio recordings for Anglo Irish which as has come out were part of the requirement for the regulator, then where are the tapes for AIB, Bank of Ireland and Fingleton's Bank?

If anyone reading this has access to these tapes and is a honest citizen then it is imperative that you make a backup copy as quickly as possible because it is highly likely they will be destroyed otherwise unless they are already under the secure safe keeping of people of integrity.

by dave Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:11

what sort of message is the government trying to send out to irish people. be a whistleblower and get jailed?

by Baggie Mon Jul 22, 2013 13:40

The Quinn family have access to all these tapes for their various court cases. The newspaper stories have damaged the reputation of Anglo (I know) even further.

It’s a puzzle how the Indo got hold of these tapes isn’t it?

by fred Thu Sep 26, 2013 08:20

Absolutely scandalous!!!:

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/disbelief-as-c....html

Quote:
"THE governor of the Central Bank faces a public grilling today after his controversial decision to drop the investigation into the contents of the Anglo Tapes.

Senior politicians expressed astonishment as the Central Bank announced it would not be making criminal complaints either to the gardai or the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement over the tapes."

by dave Sun Sep 29, 2013 13:31

Another injustice,while the poor are fighting to survive the latest cuts,these guys who scammed the country are off to enjoy the rest of their life on ill gotten gains..

They should be thrown in jail just like the dundons and the rest of them.These two guys are pure assholes of the highest order.This is a fucking absolute disgrace,its what makes ireland,ireland..The laughing stock of the world,no wonder the EU don't take us seriously when our ministers say they want to negotiate terms etc..

What a fucking joke.