May Meeting of Cooley Environmental and Health Group

by Sean Crudden Fri Nov 11, 2011 19:50

Look, Opus, I am not going around like a raging lion seeking vulnerable people to confuse.  And I would never attempt to give mental health to anyone.  In fact mental health to me is a meaningless term.  I eschew it and I make it a rule of life never to try to discuss indefinables like that. 

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Fri Nov 11, 2011 19:34

to you lads..I'm just not swallowing the plaumause.

That you think I have the slightest influence on your winter confab illustrates nicely the extent of your delusion.

Oh but I did absorb what i was supposed to learn..by rote..before I understood it..then i found a dictionary and deciphered the program...and found all it added up to was 'do as I say, nor as i do'.

I dont mind you having your winter workshops, just dont want you confusing the vulnerable that might be seeking mental health.

by Sean Crudden Fri Nov 11, 2011 16:18

Well, Opus, I have no doubt you went to school but I doubt if you were indoctrinated.  I have the impression that you never absorbed properly anything you were supposed to learn.  You seem to be academic but there is a superficial element to it all a kind of lip service to academia.  But a lot of your ideas are half baked or at least questionable.  I really don't mind and it certainly is not my responsibility to try to teach you anything even etiquette.  And you really seem to be on a mission to stop the winter workshop on suicide prevention going ahead?

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Fri Nov 11, 2011 15:55

Interesting word...as in propagation...now remind me which of the Vatican offices goes by that title 'congregation for the propagation of the faith'...

Sacra Congregatio de Propaganda Fide....1833 the Irish church was subsumed and subducted...and one of its cathecisms was the book we were indoctrinated with as children..indoctrinated ..another word with resonances...from doctrine..it being a cathecism of doctrine.

But its those of us who question your orthodoxy are the propagandists...well now...in psychological terms thats what Sigmund Freud would have designated as 'Projection'.

But i shouldn't have to explain that to a man of your authority on the subject of mental health. Or perhaps your antipathy to history obviated your anticipation of the hole you are digging..but then the institution has most of the spadework done.

by Sean Crudden Fri Nov 11, 2011 15:33

Your post is longer than usual but there is nothing in it that has not been heard before from you a dozen times.  Constant repetition is a tool of the propagandist.  But it is one of the main reasons why your writing is so boring and annoying.  You jump in with Pavlovian knee-jerk responses drawn from your small stock of cliched ideas and you expect readers of indymedia to drool over every word that trips off your keyboard as if you or your hands were anointed.  I do not know if you are possessed of any kind of self consciousness but you are all over indymedia like a rash that won't go away.  I am always suspicious of know-alls who tell me how to live my life.  If you don't mind, Opus, I would prefer to live my life my own way.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Fri Nov 11, 2011 14:51

But if you go back and check the thread you'll find it was you addressed me with accusations and distortions after I requested that Mr Hynes answer a question from another poster.

You are obviously confused. I suggest you take a walk in the country and try to assemble a little coherence before you go organising mental health seminars under the aegis of a discredited and anachronistic institution that has done more to undermine the mental health of generations on this island and beyond, and to inhibit the rational discussion of our social and psychological problems, than any other entity I can think of.

The rejection of rationality at the core of this institution is the very antithesis of mental health, and your apparent inability to address this central issue is in itself symtomatic of its toxic effects. It is in the interests of rational psychological functioning that I take the trouble to monitor any (and they are many) authoritarian emanations from this institution. Your claims to authority on the subject of mental health, and Mr Hynes adoption of his episcopal title as crozier to swing as intimidation, are of a passing age, from which it is be hoped our population is emeging into more adult independence.

The comments remain to be seen, if you have lost track. Defensiveness can do that, particularly when it is the indefensible you are defending. As I originally suggested, try a little honest self-scrutiny..it works wonders for the peace of mind that goes with a healthy mind. Not something detectable from your, or Mr Hynes, posts. The crutch of your maternal church should be abandoned before you make claims to instruct others in mature and balanced thinking. I suggest you begin by reading a little of the history of this institution you clutch so protectively. But perhaps you prefer to remain in the dark.

by Sean Crudden Fri Nov 11, 2011 14:08

Look, Opus, I just want to check a few basic things underlying this discussion.  I do not accept that you are superior morally, ethically, mentally.  My presupposition is that all contributors to indymedia are equal.  I do not think you have any entitlement to dictate to me what I must believe or to prescribe to me how I must think.  I have no reason to suppose you are any more infallible than I am.  I am at least as worried about my mental health as anyone else and I certainly make no pretensions that I can solve your problems or anyone else's.  Nor am I any kind of seer or shaman.  You are misrepresenting me in this regard.  Bear in mind that this thread is about Cooley Environmental and Health Group; the 2012 winter workshop on suicide prevention.  I think I have done my job.  I conveyed some sense of Cooley Environmental and Health Group, the local landscape, what our general approach is to workshops; this will be the 12th annual winter workshop in a series dating back to the beginning of the millennium.  If you have the time and the interest you can refer to our web-site in which you will find a description of some of our recent workshops.  They are really no big deal.  You are talking about "well documented and proven evidence of accumulated crimes and cover ups."  Accepting you at your word if the crimes are well documented and proven why are you asking me about it?  You must know more about it already than I do?  I think your contribution to this thread is sterile.  You are merely riding your favourite hobby horse all round this precinct and frankly I think you are a bore.  Not to mention the spleen and the bile. 

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:09

..isn't it grand and handy to be able to dump the crimes of the Roman imperial sect onto the 'human race' in general..just like the 'no blame game' of our political culprits...and the 'we're all in it together' and 'nobody is innocent' communalising of the the guilt and compensation payments for abuse crimes onto the taxpayers' backs...same old socialism for the rich and priveleged who swing their golf-clubs as they crony round the greens making deals as the rest of us are told we are the welfare fraudsters if we do an hours work to try and get by.


Clever lads. And of course its my 'bullying and browbeating' questions that are not 'honest', while your evasions and obscurantism are the humble efforts of a simple innocent.  They school ye well in the snake-oil apps

Oh, and my questions are not 'barely concealed accusations' with 'preconcieved answers'.

They relate to well documented and proven evidence of accumulated crimes and cover-ups and legalistic jesuitism to cover the self-appointedly 'holy see's' filthy arse. And to protect its sacred coffers. How many pieces of silver does a bishop collect for burying his conscience and shifting a paedophile priest to a fresh parochial paradise of predatory pederasty?
Should I list the reports for you, Sean?

And the result of all this duplicity and denial is that many decent honest and hard-working priests are then smeared with the criminal bestialty of those the heirarchy protects under its patriarchal skirts.
And then you compound the chutzpah by publicly proclaiming your pristine mental health and capability of healing the damaged from your still elevated moral superiority....as somebody said of another of our paragons of rectitude...a class act.

by Sean Crudden Thu Nov 10, 2011 16:50

Well, Opus, there are questions and then there are questions.  I am sensitive to honest questions and if a person is looking for information from me and asking a straight question I will always do my best to answer it while my brain continues to function in its humble way.  However I feel under no obligation where questions are barely concealed accusations to which the questioner is pointing already to a preconceived answer.  Could it be that all those question marks you are so profligate with are an attempt to bully and browbeat this correspondent?  Have you anything new to say other than to rehash all the hackneyed examples you can dig up from the unfortunate history of the human race?  What is the weather like in your part of the world?  Did you have a nice lunch?  What was your purpose when you said your morning offering this morning?  Do you want to destroy?  Or create?

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Thu Nov 10, 2011 16:32

No question answered. More obfuscation and diversion.

Mentally healthy?

by Sean Crudden Thu Nov 10, 2011 16:24

Well, Opus, I am not a student of history.  It's a bit like scripture and we are told The Devil can quote scripture for his purpose.  Or statistics.  As a matter of interest the only person I know of from these parts to be hung, drawn and quartered was St. Oliver Plunkett.  He was not executed becuse he was a heretic.  I think it was because he was a professed Catholic.  Something to do with the Penal Laws?  If you hate the church so much why don't you get up from behind your keyboard, join Fine Gael, and get the Catholic Church proscribed?

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Thu Nov 10, 2011 15:38

How convenient. When the past indicts your organisation..we just forget it. When your church stings the taxpayer for its compensation bills to those it abused..we can indulge in selective amnesia.

Isn't that a bit like inducing Alzheimer's deliberately??????????????????

Count them, it'll keep you out of mischief.

Oh, and while we're on self-induced Alzheimer's, would you consider THAT a symptom of mental health??

Try answering the question, if your going to reply; I suspect I'm not the only curious reader of your answers to the many questions you recidivistically refuse to answer.

Evasion of reponsibility??Another sign of robust mental health?

Some of us think conscience is a sign of ethical maturity. Any thoughts on that strange aberration, when you've finished counting the punctuation and diverting the charges. Or is ethics antithetical to your mental well-being?

I also see the Irish educational system is airbrushing History and Geography from the curricula...very handy for all those hard-working revisionists. Ah yes..forgive us our imperial crimes..and lets pretend we're the nice guys and the rebels we hung, drew and quartered were the real enemy. Pesky heretics, eh?Just one question-mark there..dont want to exhaust your cerebral athleticism.

by Sean Crudden Thu Nov 10, 2011 15:02

Hi Opus.  What's the difference between one question mark and a series of 15 question marks?  Will you be attending the workshop?  While I am at the keyboard I would like to make two corrections.  I used a word "uncontrovertible" in a comment above.  I was not trying to be smart but I was wrong.  The word is "incontrovertible."  Also the date of the workshop is 28 January 2012 starting at 14.00.  I gave the date wrongly as 29 in the same careless comment I made above.  You know, Opus, we can sometimes make ourselves slaves to history.  Sometimes it is better to forget the past, forgive, live and let live, look forward.  I attended a session on church music in Ballymascanlon Hotel yesterday evening.  It was facilitated by Colm Murphy, Head of Music, St. Paul's Secondary School, Bessbrook; organist in St. Patrick's Cathedral, Armagh.  Over 60 choir directors and choir members from this county/district attended.  A good level of talent and enthusiasm was evident and in my book these were devout and harmless people who are not devoid of a sense of right and wrong. 

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Thu Nov 10, 2011 13:45

I thought it was your cult/sect was adding insult to the millenia of injuries...antisemitism, crusading wars, inquisitions, murder and torture of freethinking people as 'heretics', pillaging of the globe in the company of empires Roman, Spanish etc., slavemongering, collaboaration with Franco, Hitler, Musssolini, child-theft and enslavement and selling, sexual abuse and covering-up, brainwashing and fearmongering for mind-control....

But i'm being 'insulting' for shedding a litle light on your pretensions to mental health???

If you wish to take insult from someone merely pointing to what at this stage is public knowledege(despite your collective refusal to accept your church's irredeemable corruption)..then Amen..so be it.

by Sean Crudden Wed Nov 09, 2011 21:57

Hi Memory.  You are more than welcome to attend the workshop to cast light on the assertion you are making.  If you cannot wait until then I would be interested to hear what you know about suicides the result of child clerical sex abuse here on this thread.  As regards Opus, in spite of his insults, I have invited him up here before but he pleaded he cannot afford the bus fare.  Maybe he will turn up when he gets the free transport?

by MemoryHole Wed Nov 09, 2011 20:38

and I'm still waiting on a decent response to my question:

"will there be discussion about the number of people who have committed suicide later in life having been abused at a young age by members of religious orders?"

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Wed Nov 09, 2011 18:00

While the reverend gintlemin continue, as per, to dodge all questions addressed to their delusion-fueled pretensions to mental health.

The mentally healthy do not use mumbo-jumbo hypnotics and superstition as means to controlling the gullible and vulnerable, often for PROVEN,  and still denied abusive purposes.

Keep stuffing the pork, our children will be safer if thats all you stuff.

by Lenny Wed Nov 09, 2011 04:02

As a casual visitor to the site I really liked the opening sentence to your story at the top of this thread, viz.:  The current monthly meeting starts with bacon, egg, sausages, black pudding, potato bread, pancake, brown sauce, orange juice, toast, tea.

I'd recommend a hearty breakfast to any group of people proposing to discuss serious business about topics like the environment, suicide prevention, mental disability or anything else. If more people at conferences started their deliberations in the early morning in this human way they might get their business done constructively and in an atmosphere of consensus and harmony. Good luck with your conference everybody.

by Sean Crudden Tue Nov 08, 2011 20:23

Yes, Rational, I am already familiar with your point of view on the church.  The point you make about alcohol is uncontrovertible as far as received ideas go at the present time and it seems it plays a part in many a suicide.  Cooley distillery are not sponsoring the workshop; they have sponsored our website for years.  I might point out that Cooley is a legal distillery licenced to make whiskey.  I often lowered a glass myself and enjoyed it.  Alcohol is used in the sacrifice of the mass.  Some people (like yourself?) may feel that alcohol should be prohibited; more people regard it as natural and acceptable.  Anyway, Rational, it is not my intention to hold the workshop on suicide prevention here and now on indymedia.ie.  It is due to take place in The Strand Hotel on 29 January 2012 starting at 14.00.  You are more than welcome to attend and put your point of view.  Of course I understand if you cling to a principled objection to attending?

by Rational Ecologist. Tue Nov 08, 2011 13:56

My questions are valid and it is not very satisfactory that you use this public forum in such a selective way. Do I have a problem with the church/hierarchy? Damn right I do, however, this does not invalidate my questions. On my last point regarding alcohol, which is hardly a controversial point, I do think it is worth asking, particularily in light of your sponsorship. Alcohol is a huge contributing factor and cannot possibly be left out of any meaningful discussion on a topic that I have far too much personal and professional experience of. I would refuse to partake in any such event sponsored by a distillery. I look forward to you addressing these valid questions. Your defensiveness is a worry. Thanks for your time and your anticipated, worthwhile response to my very reasonable, uncontroversial, salient points.

by Sean Crudden Tue Nov 08, 2011 13:23

Hi Opus and Rational.  The questions you ask are not real questions.  The answers are implied in the questions i.e. they are merely rhetorical questions.  Anyway I think Opus should find out what "begging the question" means.  He is always at it?

by Rational Ecologist. Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:20

Does a religion hijacked by a male-dominated, celibate(?), chaste(?) hierrachy contribute to the phenomenon of suicide? Does the phenomenon of clerical abuse and subsequent cover up and collusion destroy victims' mental health. Role of alcohol(Distillery sponsoring the event) in suicide.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Mon Nov 07, 2011 22:55

I believe my intentions are quite overt. You sure you understand the word, sean?

Begs the question?No I request an answer.Most unlikely from such sources, bit like expecting adult reponsibility.

Impolite? For not bowing and scraping before pretentious titles?For trying to practise democratic scrutiny of obfuscating clerics masquerading, yet again, as moral guides, when their record speaks volumes that save me any utterance?

by Sean Crudden - Cooley Environmental and Health Group Mon Nov 07, 2011 18:03 sean at cooleyehg dot com Jenkinstown, Dundalk, Co Louth 0879739945

The pictures included in this post were taken on the way to yesterday morning's meeting in The Strand, Omeath.  I travelled from Jenkinstown over the mountain up by The Long Woman's Grave.  I looked at Opus' post.  As usual in my opinion his remarks are tendentious and I really think he is begging the question in many respects.  And he is rather impolite I think?

Glenmore

Carlingford Lough

Omeath/Warrenpoint

Dessie & Sorley, proprietor, The Strand

Secretary

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Mon Nov 07, 2011 16:02

You would address MemoryHole's comment above...

If not I would make the case that religious indoctrination and superstition lead to mental confusion and irrationality which can lead to depression and suicidal tendencies..whereas an upbringing which stresses calm rationality, rather than induced terrors, in children, and a culture of questioning and critical thinking rather than servile obedience, are the things that will foster mental health.

And do you consider it mentally salubrious to adopt pretentious titles for artificial elevation above your fellow citizens?Or perhaps you find it useful for intimidation, a trait common to military institutions where undemocratic power is the end sought.
The good news is that self-delusion, no matter how deeply ingrained, can be overcome by a little unaccustomed honesty.
RSVP.

by Archbishop Michael Desmond Hynes - Cooley Environmental & Health Group (CEHG) Mon Nov 07, 2011 15:40

Cooley Environmental & Health Group Meeting in Strand Hotel Omeath Sunday 6th November 2011 @ 10 AM

Treasurer Seán Crudden in top form informed the meeting we now have five sponsors for our website http://www.cooleyehg.co/ as follows:

1. Cooley Distillery Plc
2. Ready Mixed Concrete (Ireland) Ltd
3. Seamus Murphy & Sons, Bush
4. Strandfield; café and flower market
5. Bellurgan Precision Engineering Ltd

The meeting were most grateful to the funders who give us their support and now thankful they will be able to maintain the website for the betterment of all in the Peninsula and it’s hinterlands for 2012.

Mr Crudden is to update the structure of the website and include 2012 workshop page for the workshop on “Suicide” which is being held on Saturday the  28th January 2012 form 2 PM – 5.30 PM in The Strand Hotel Omeath Co Louth.

Many guests are being invited to speak at the workshop and the final list will be completed by December.

1.     We need to ask what suicide is.

2.     What is the underline causes if any?

3.     How is suicide impacting on our society?

4.     Is suicide unique to Ireland or is it an international phenomenon?

5.     Is Suicide on the increase and if so why?

6.     What can be done to alleviate or diminish suicide occurrence?

7.     Who are likely to fall victims of suicide?

8.     Has our ailing economic situation any impact on the phenomenon?

9.     Has our sense of belonging to each other been lost with us having lost our identity as a nation now that we are part of a much bigger economic structure to EC and all it problems?

10.                        Can religion play a role in increasing or decreasing suicide tendencies?

Above are some of the questions we need to address. I am sure ye all have many more and trust you will add to the above list.

+M D Hynes

Secretary/PRO CEHG

http://www.cooleyehg.ie/

by MemoryHole Mon May 09, 2011 15:18

will there be mention of the number of people who have committed suicide later in life having been abused at a young age by members of religious orders?

by Archbishop Michael D Hynes - Cooley Environmental & Health Group Mon May 09, 2011 15:13

Cooley Environmental Health Group Meeting in Omeath Sunday 8th May 2011-05-09
Within a panoramic view of Warrenpoint and Carlingford Lough from the Strand Hotel in Omeath the meeting got off to a good start following breakfast which was enjoyed by all.
A date is now penned for next year’s workshop Saturday 28th January 2012 in The Strand Hotel Omeath. The Theme for 2012 workshop is “Suicide Prevention”!
Archbishop Michael-Desmond Hynes as Secretary of CEHG is to write a letter of sympathy to the Cooley Parishioners and Clergy of the Archdiocese of Armagh on the rather untimely death of the Peninsula’s Vicar Forane and Parish Priest of Cooley parish Fr Peter McParland who passed away on the 6th May 2011 in Daisy Hill Hospital in Newry Co Down. Fr Peter known affection ally as Fr Peter-Joe was very popular within the Cooley Peninsula and further afield not forgetting his much loved Camlough in Co Armagh of which he were a native.
The rather Sombre Topic of Suicide came rather speedily to the fore as a brainstorming exercise took place which soon focused on Suicide Prevention as the title of the 2012 workshop for 28th January 2012.
The meeting heard Signor Seán Crudden is heading for Brussels representing Ireland on the EDUSP later this month was well received by the CEHG and all wished him well for his trip.

The next meeting is on Sunday 26th June 2011 in The Strand Hotel Omeath.

+Michael-Des Hynes
Secretary/PRO CEHG

Website: www.cooleyehg.com