Ireland and Economic Depression

by David Harvey - CUNY Sat Mar 07, 2009 02:03

Does this crisis signal the end of neo-liberalism? My answer is that it depends what you mean by neo-liberalism. My interpretation is that it’s a class project, masked by a lot of neo-liberal rhetoric about individual freedom, liberty, personal responsibility, privatisation and the free market. These were means, however, towards the restoration and consolidation of class power, and that neo-liberal project has been fairly successful.

One of the basic principles that was set up in the 1970s was that state power should protect financial institutions at all costs. This is the principle that was worked out in New York City crisis in the mid-1970s, and was first defined internationally when Mexico threatened to go bankrupt in 1982. This would have destroyed the New York investment banks, so the US Treasury and the IMF combined to bail Mexico out. But in so doing they mandated austerity for the Mexican population. In other words they protected the banks and destroyed the people, and this has been the standard practice in the IMF ever since. The current bailout is the same old story, one more time, except bigger.

Transcribed by Kate Ferguson
Edited by Mary Livingstone

Full text at link.

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by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Tue Mar 10, 2009 18:01

I studied in Trinity - Economics, Sean Barrett, Professor Wickham Social ..........,

These are excellent lectures. Why don't student's start publishings essays on Indymedia to aid the recover of Ireland.

Professor O'Hagan was excellent on Economy of Ireland and then History

by Polly Tue Mar 10, 2009 18:13

I just wonder what we mean by working class today. It is a very small group of people who own large private companies. Senior civil servants, judges, senior bankers, senior business people take no risk with their own money and generally own only a small part of the means of production (through shares). The people who have power and make decisions are generally wage earners and have used this power to take large slices of the National Cake. Senior presenters in RTE who have enormous influence on society may technically be self-employed but without any capital investment of their own. Accountants, auditors and legal professionals appear to have few ethics and are solely concerned with their own economic interests and seem to have no responsibility to their clients or society. You must audit your accounts but the auditors have no responsibility. Just listen to how many times you have heard recently that no-one can act because they received legal advice. People throughout the country who have a small to medium business have put their money on the line - these are the owners of capital - they are creating jobs for themselves and others with a view to earning profit and some go bankrupt with that effort. They have no recourse to social welfare when things go pear-shaped.
So, I'm not sure what relevance this argument of the owners of capital versus the working class has any longer. I think the real problem is with the waged /salaried elites. This doesn't mean I believe the neo-liberal, market above all capitalist society is right. I just think the focus has to change from owners of the means of production. Speculation for quick profits has to be prohibited somehow. I agree that venture capitalists should not be allowed to take over the Irish banks. Even though I have bank shares I would prefer to see them nationalised. My real question is "Who are the working-class?" and how do you stop the "new elites" in the new communist society from using their power to feather their own nests? This is the problem of "human nature" and "political association" that philosphers have been trying to come to terms with for thousands of years.

by Paul o toole Sun Mar 15, 2009 13:53 pauljotoole at eircom dot net

Fools And Our Money
Willy O dea, minister for defense announced savings to day of between 8 and 9 million Euros because the mission of Irish troops has moved over to a UN led opperation. This in effect decreases the financial burden on the Irish exchequer by about 60% because the EU now funds the difference.
The mission to date has cost the Irish taxpayer 57m euro per annum. A 60% savings at this point of 57million is 34.2 million yet the minister says there is savings of 8 or 9 million....wheres the other 24 or 25 million??. And where did he get his leaving cert??

Minister for Finance admitted he cost us arround 700 million in failed V.A.T. policy. This was known long before the losses would be incurred and he sat on his hands.

I asked Minister Lennihan outside the dept. of finance last week......
'Why wont you get Bono to pay his taxes here in Ireland?',
He said ..'Why dont you ask Mr. Bono yourself.'....
I said...'You made the legislation which allows him away without paying income-tax in Ireland for the last 32 years'
He said....We introduced the 'Cinderella Clause' which.........blah blah.....
The Cinderella clause has no real bearing on what the question posed to ask.

As floundering shareholders funds in our most presdigious corrupt banks are being secured against our taxes, without any transparency as to these mega-rich people are whomb we are bailing out, as social services are being removed at stealth speed, as the government sits motionless in the face of crisis, as the value of labour spirals down, as the health services cut a billion in funding, as schools are having to cut staff, as busses are removed from service, as jobs are heading east, as a new emigrant era migrates south,
as brokerage firm economists demand 2 million in fees to advise.....our politicians..........award themselves a payrise.

by pseudonym Mon Mar 16, 2009 17:03

The recession was generated by the media and the banks.
The media suddenly had doom gloom etc. all over it and the ministers were the first to shout the word.
The banks suddenly paid an enourmous amount in 'insurance' fees towards internal money transfers between banks imposed by the central bank. This left them with no cash. As long as people believe in this rescession there will be one. When you stop spending the economy falls. Then the governement and the central bank have a chance of changing the amount of euro's in circulation. There is no gold or good standard. So the amount of euro's is not measured to the amount of goods produced/posessed. They can play false in what to them is the big euro game.
Do you want to be cheated out of your euro's?

by Paddy Hackett Wed Mar 18, 2009 18:03 rasherrs at eircom dot net

David mistakenly claims that the Irish state can borrow instead of cutting back and increasing taxes.
Remarks concerning comments by David McWilliams published in The Sunday Business Post
Paddy Hackett

“It is crucial now that the world - and Ireland- creates inflation, not deflation. If we haven’t the stomach to print money (which would be by far the easiest exit route), we need to turn on the taps through government borrowing” (This Is Not The Time To Panic by David McWilliams: Sunday Business Post 15th March, 2009)
In his comments on current economic conditions David McWilliams suggests that under the present economic downswing the Irish state can liberally borrow funds to compensate for the steep fall-off in revenue from taxation. It also suggests that this wholesale borrowing will largely relieve the Irish economy of the problems it has been experiencing as a result of the economic downturn. He also claims that this mass borrowing will prepare the Irish economy for taking advantage of the pickup in the global economy when it comes.
David is a victim of the illusory way in which capitalism presents itself. He seems to think that the Irish economy can essentially avoid the effects of the global economic downturn by borrowing. If this is the case then there need never be recessions since economies can merely borrow their way out of them.Borrowing then is the the agency that prevents economic recession. But it is just this borrowing that has largely helped turn boom into bubble with its current deflation. The very borrowing of the banks and private companies in Ireland and elsewhere was a factor in intensifying the economic conditions that created speculative practices.
It is only at a particular stage in the downswing that the injection of cash into the economy can precipitate recovery. At this stage the economic slump has effectively bottomed out rendering it ready for take off.
If it was as easy as David suggests there would never be recessions and there would be no need to abolish capitalism and replace it with communism.

by Diarmuid Mon Mar 23, 2009 01:05

A suggestion - please visit solari.com - this is the site of Catherine Austin Fitts - ex wall street insider previous under secretary for housing (HUD) under Bush 1 - she exposes the shell game which is our current monetary / financial system and "dirty tricks" which are currently used to generate massive profits for a few (I believe many of the same tricks /. corruption are currently at work in Ireland)

For details on the how the war and drugs and the massive increase in the prision population in the US has generated massive profits for wall street and London financial centers please read her personal story at

http://www.dunwalke.com/

I believe this crisis may well be an exsistensial one for the middle class and working communities of Western Europe and the US - as far as I can tell all of the proposed solutions, so called capitalist, socialist or communist solutions being presented are ones which will further concentrate power in the hands of a few - global financial regulation - EU super state - more regulatory powers to the FED in the US - more power to the IMF BIS etc. bigger goverment everywhere. none of this is in anyones interests except for the few in the inner circle who will weild this power and further consolidate their wealth and position at the expense of peoples everywhere we must break this cycle in my view by assserting our own independence as individuals, stop looking to our goverments or politicians of so called opposition parties for solutions what they are proposing is not in our interests, start to bring decision making and investments back into our communities decentralize - people need to educate themselves on the nature of money - if you do not understand the term FIAT money and understand ALL money is Debt - its a claim on your future labour the only thing of true value in this world - and the ramifications of this statement on your life then you need to educate yourselves as a matter of grave importance

Please watch the MONEY MASTERS and "money as debt" on google video as an introduction to money and its creation

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=money+as+debt&emb=0#

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6076118677860424204

- you will then begin to truly understand the utter fallacy in David McWilliams Keysian assertions that a debt problem can be cured by more debt - the Irish goverment has already burdened us and our children with a debt they will never be able to pay off by backstopping and accepting liability for fradulent investments of the insolvent Irish banks (whos consent was given to do this?) and now they want to burden our grandchildren aswell

God Bless