"They Can Not Purge"

by Duine Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:46

Mo sheacht mh'anam sibh!!!!!!!!!!!

by Tony Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:51

They have made their point - come on out. No reasonable person would expect Shell to weaken its legal standing for the future. Anyway law is law - and thats what makes the thing work!! Problem is the 5 seem to have set the bar so high that there is no obvious solution.

by Sherlock Holmes Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:17

"Anyway law is law - and thats what makes the thing work!!"

What a farcical statement,
who exactly does the law work for - vested interests
who creates the law - vested interests
who lives above the law - vested interests

There is a big difference between the law and justice. The law does not work for the vast majority of the people on this island because the laws were not written for the benefit of the majority of people on this island.

But hey, its your world we're just living in it

by Shane Fri Aug 12, 2005 13:02

Fair play to you Tony. You really are a man of conviction. Perhaps if there were more people like you the world would run more smoothly, eh? You wouldn't have so many people wasting time talking about the environment, democracy, justice, freedom of speech and civil and human rights. What a waste of time all that stuff is I mean where have a few people of conviction ever succeded in acheiving anything? Maybe we should just all roll over and die now because nothing has ever been worth fighting for. Get a grip man! I think if you had the strenght and character of those five men you would find it easier to find where they are coming from. And what have they acheived? They have taken what was seen as a local issue that the mainstream media wouldn't touch with a barge pole and turned it into an ever growing national movement, as tomorrows demonstration in Galway will show. Personally I'm behind them 100% as are most people we encounter on the streets everyday. They are drawing support from all sections of the community and showing that real democracy isn't something that happens in Dail Eireann but in the Cities, towns, villages and countryside and they are an inspiration to all Irish people to stand up and make themselves heard.
Now Tony, what have you acheived lately?

by Tony Fri Aug 12, 2005 13:14

Nice prose Shane.

Just because I have a different view from you please dont try to belittle me and make out that I am of weak character. I admire the men for taking a stand. I admire their strength of character - it must be difficult. Howver, I still believe that they have set the bar so high that there is no possible solution and that will ultimately prove their undoing. i also actually believe that some of the people who are supporting them are doing them no favours and indeed some of the Shell to Sea campaign specifically is misguided.

As regards what I have done lately - i dont need to publicise that as my strength of character is such that I can live without the praise.

by "Tony" Yaknowme Fri Aug 12, 2005 13:16

Car, bitch wife, high cholestral, tax forms on time, screaming kids and sullen teenager, the only time I get a hardon is when I spout reactionary views like this.This helps widen the gap between me, people and my sullen teenager.Dat is wat people needs, Reality!

When I was young I was able to tell racist jokes-Ya can't do dat anymore, fer jaysus sakes! Dese days I reads me Magill to keeps up with the oul' intellectualisms, not dat whiny Village Vincent Brown shite.

Now use yers cop ons.If it twernt fer Shell and de loikes, well jaysuys den, whered de economy be?Foigs sake, gerra grip. De woife may be doing a line wid da milk man, but I stil knows de priorities, and daz a fact.Why can't young people gets clued in to geniuses like Brendan O' Connor, instead of listenin to all dat hippy Tim O'Leary left wing drug induced nonsense? REALITY!

by Geoff Fri Aug 12, 2005 13:27

There is nothing misguided about this campaign.Shell got a compulsory purchase order to put a high presure pipeline through the back of these people's houses.

These five men are worried for their safety and Shell and the government have riddden rough shod over them. Shell could easily afford to build out at sea, especially considering Ray Burke sold the gas fields off for nothing.

Don't have such blind faith in these institutes of law and power.People are people and those above will always attempt a fast one.It seems to be human nature.How often would you leave a stuffed wallet out in public out in a crowded bar?

Likewise, those in power will twist the law to their side.Law, if you actually look into it, is a word game, which is why we have concepts like 'precedents' etc.

It is necessary therefore, to fully support the Five, because it is the intransigence of Shell and various politicos that has lead to these situation. It is high corporate bullying.Don't think for a minute that big boys would hestitate in screwing you over.They'd use you to wipe the floor.

Democracy is not just about voting for some fat cock sure of himself prick in a suit.Democracy does not take place every five years. Social contracts must be re-negotiated and re-written; otherwise we would still have slavery, etc.

So instead of telling these men to give up, and 'be sensible', boycott Shell. :0)

by Hal Fri Aug 12, 2005 13:34

Geoff

I admire the 5 men - let me say that from the start.

The campaign is flawed - the men took the stand because of sfaety concerns - yet alraedy i see the Shell to sea campaign is dissing the independent safety review - IT HAS NOT EVEN STARTED!!! This speaks volumes to me - discredit it before it gets going because they know the results wont please them. At some stage you need to wake up to the possibility that it just might not be the grand conspiracy you make it out to be!!

regarding odffshore processing - I've seen the view here before aswell - the same infrastructure exists - same pipe, same pressure etc etc - it doesnt add any new safety element. i thought it was all about safety??

by eeekkkk Fri Aug 12, 2005 13:41

Unlike shell's illegal work on the big fat pipe they are objecting to.

http://www.indymedia.ie/attachments/jul2005/pipeline.jpg

Like however the big undersea trench/pipe which dempsey has now approved thus pre-empting and rendering meaningless any review based on safety concerns or that might take into account the possibility that the gas be refined at sea and then pumped onto land.

The men's basic demand from the start was Shell To Sea. Translation: Refinery offshore. No High pressure pipe carrying untreated gas through their community and over their land.

by Mark Fri Aug 12, 2005 14:18

It seems that Mayo County Council will not support a motion to call on Shell to Sea - sense prevailing

by Geoff Fri Aug 12, 2005 14:21

Indeed they should have had an independent safety review long before any rough shod compulsory order was made! Why is it only happening now?

Two; gas pipelines have burst, killing people. Out at sea is the best. Again, do you think for one minute huge companies actually give a shit about people.No, I don't think they do.They let Ken Saro Wi We be murdered by the Nigerian military. Yet you act like I'm the silly one for not trusting this shower of cowboys.


The Campaign Rocks; I hope Shell senior managment and the donkey politicians get stomuch ulcers as a result.

Much as I'd like to retreat to the hum drum mental safety of trusting our beautiful politicians and thinking everything they tell us is great, I think I'll opt out of the ignorance being bliss clause and be a very unsensible and un Sunday Independent reading type of guy.

I generally don't trust skangers I meet on the street.I am not going to trust a company that, it has emerged, engaged in illegal building, as well as staying stumm the time Ken Saro We Wi was murdered.

Why do people enjoy conforming so much?

by Sherlock Holmes Fri Aug 12, 2005 14:21

Fine Gael are the only party opposing giving support. FF and Lab have a motion down supporting the campaign and you can expect that to pass at the EGM

by Geoff Fri Aug 12, 2005 14:22

Why is sense prevailing?Would you like a great big pipeline in your back garden?

by Geoff Fri Aug 12, 2005 14:25

"regarding odffshore processing - I've seen the view here before aswell - the same infrastructure exists - same pipe, same pressure etc etc - it doesnt add any new safety element. i thought it was all about safety??"

Eh, generally people don't live in the sea.Humans are land creatures.True, our amoebic ancestors did crawl out of the sea, but today rthis does not happen.

Are you making statements like this on purpose, Hal?

by Hal Fri Aug 12, 2005 14:30

Ehh Geoff - there will still be an onshore pipeline no matter where they process the gas!!! that is my point - it pretty sinple but perhaps its you who lives in the sea!!! Doh!

Go watch Shark Tale!

by kieran Fri Aug 12, 2005 14:38

agree with you 100% Hal,

by eeekkkkkk Fri Aug 12, 2005 14:40

"there will still be an onshore pipeline no matter where they process the gas!!!"


But It Would Be Clean Not High Pressure gas With An Odour Added For safety Reasons!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

With your level of analysis as a high water mark I'm sure I could construct an argument that my auld green garden hose is in fact just the same as a shell high pressure pipeline running over bog carrying untreated odourless gas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by Shane Fri Aug 12, 2005 20:14

Just another quick note for those who talk about the direction of the campaign etc. and potential damage or unacheivable goals. The shell to sea campaign is directed from Rossport! Those involved carry out the will of the men in prison at their request! No significant action is taken without the consent of the men or their families! And beleive it or not this system is actually working. In galway we have representatives of at least seven different groups sitting on a comitee acting as an instrument of the people in Rossport. We have varying views we could all follow our own party lines or personal agendas but instead we focus on what we consider to be realistic or acheivable goals and those who question our methods are in a minority because the vast majority of people we have encountered on the streets of Galway while gathering petitions and handing out flyers have given nothing but support to those five men and their families and the vast majority of people believe that what the people of Rossport are demanding is not only just but also realistic. Also regarding pipelines let's compare and contrast national opinion of the east-west interconnector pipe (treated, normal pressure, odourised, national grid type) to the one carrying untreated gas to the refinery. How much opposition did you hear to that 300km stretch of pipe? Not very much in fact it passed 200m from my family home and I saw no reason to object. However IN ROSSPORT THERE ARE REAL SAFETY ISSUES AND REAL ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES. And if you don't think this is important then I guess you'll just have to wait until it's in your backyard.

by george Sat Aug 13, 2005 00:04

this project will be completed

it is not often in this small state of ours that projects of this magnitude come along, if shell find more gas, oil etc. i say good luck to them and to any other involved in exploration activities off our coast,

while i myself am not from the area i know for a fact that a substantial number of locals were employed there, some of whom returned home from abroad for this once in a lifetime opportunity to work close to their homes, unfortunately eeekkk and others have no interest in the turmoil these people may be experiencing having lost their jobs

i hope for all of them that when all this nonsense gets sorted their jobs will be open for them to return to

by Captain Birds Eye Sun Aug 14, 2005 00:49

There is a threat to salmon in Rossport and the trout lakes nearby. Shell are proposing to run a pipe from the refinery out to sea to flush waste out thru.

Rather than send it all the way out to sea to the rig and pump the toxic waste back into the sea bed and then plug it (which is the smart option) what Shell have decided to do is to pump it out as far as Erris head which is a whale and dolphin breeding ground.

The toxic waste would include stuff like mercury, benzine, chromium(youve seen the film Erin Brockovich) etc, it has a tendancy to accumulate in the fatty tissues of fish(and humans for that matter) and besides the birth defects, diseases, cancers etc it ends up killing

by Geoff Mon Aug 15, 2005 13:03

"But It Would Be Clean Not High Pressure gas With An Odour Added For safety Reasons!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Thank you, eeeek, for explaining to Hal this simple but vital point.

Hal, go get sense rather than recommending cartoons to people.

by Justin Morahan - Peace People Mon Aug 15, 2005 16:01

Well said, Áine. Couldn't agree more.