the 4th man... who else is in the Q? "Our Laws & I-t-a-l-i-a-n-s"

international | crime and justice | other press

Saturday July 30, 2005 13:23

by iosaf

As most are now aware, the 4th July 21 London bombing suspect was arrested in Rome, but is not an i-t-a-l-i-a-n. He's an african. It appears the bombing cell were african, and not pakistani after all. It might emerge that the July 7 bombing had more to do with Africa than Madrasses after all.
No matter Pakistan still loses the income of 1,400 foreign students.

However the purpose of this thread is not to speculate, nor to condemn, nor to put any suspect to the trial of media. For Rome is Rome, and i-t-a-l-i-a-n-s do not practise British or anglo-saxon or its close relative irish law.

& we may compare and contrast the efficacy of "COBRA and D notice" in these crucial day in the UK investigation, with the lack of such restraints in the I-t-a-l-i-a-n media.

& we may compare in practise Irish and British law which are very similar and I-t-a-l-i-a-n law which is a wee bit different in such things.

(sorry about spelling it out, but keen readers will know i've been spelling out i-t-a-l-i-a-n since july 12 & its a habit now)

Osman Hussain (27yrs) is in custody in Rome.
He left London by train from Waterloo on the 26th of July.

It is said that he continued to use his telephone to maintain contact with the other suspects, and since his home is also a call centre, we can presume it would have been difficult for him to stay off the internet too and his telephone and internet records plausibly are very very long and not all strictly speaking his own responsibility.

This shows (if he is guilty) that he had not paid much attention to previous European anti- terrorist investigations. The only two states in the EU which do not allow "intercept evidence" are the UK and our own sweet Ireland.

The italians love intercept evidence, and they have proved themselves very good at its use and misuse. We will recall that they arrested the man known as "muhumad the Egyptian" in June 2004 the then presumed "mastermind" behind the Madrid 11 bombings due to intercept evidence and extradited him quite quickly to Spain.

We remember the damning phrase that the suspect used was a declaration of him and his mates being :-
"willing to die and be martyrs for the cause of Jihad".
We recall 15 other suspects were arrested at that time in the UK, they were on the phone list. But under british law we don't know what they said.

http://indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=65394
http://www.guardian.co.uk/alqaida/story/0,12469,1234595,00.html

We remember that since july 7 the I-t-a-l-i-a-n-s have changed their own anti-terror laws, making prosecutions easier, a move which had previously been challenged through the constitutional courts.
We remember the same day i-t-a-l-i-a-n-s left a coffee pot bomb outside the i-t-a-l-i-a-n cultural institute in Barcelona, their minister for justice said "terrorism is knocking on Italy's door", and then just in time for holidays, the Italian cabinet passed unanimously a package of measures on security, surveillance of both internet and telecommunications so on so forth.
We remember the 201 search warrents issued on the 13th of July and the 174 detentions mostly in Genoa.
And we remember the court cases of July 12-13th which saw Italian courts convict 2 terrorists for the first time under the Italian "patriot act" passed after september 11 in NYC.

those two men were a 40-year-old Moroccan cleric named as Mohamed Rafik who was handed a prison term of four years and eight months by judge Silvia Milesi. The other, named as Kamel Hamroui, was sentenced to three years and four months.

The sentences passed by Judge Milesi compared (and may be contrasted) with the decisions reached earlier in 2005 by Judge Clementina Forleo, ruling that the militant activity was not terrorism.

She dismissed terrorism charges against five North Africans, who would have been Hamroui's fellow defendants on July 12th.
Prosecutors said Hamroui also recruited combatants for Iraq.

But that case in Brescia, was related to Chechnya.
not just Iraq. You'll kindly remember that too.
Here's more to remember:-

Another suspect from those same cases is Noureddine Drissi, linked to the same cell as Rafik and Hamroui, he's now facing a separate trial in the city of Cremona. The prosecution has based much of its case on testimony from a Tunisian informant, who told magistrates in 2002 that a terrorist cell was planning attacks on a Milan subway station and against a church in Cremona.
Magistrates say that during their investigation of the Cremona cell they discovered leaflets calling for a holy war and a document signed by Osama bin Laden, found inside a mosque. A third suspect was cleared of terrorism charges, but convicted for lesser offences, while a fourth defendant was cleared of all charges. The case was heard using a fast track process that cuts through Italy's notoriously slow legal process and allows for shorter sentences in the event of convictions.

remember that-
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=70832
http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=105&sid=5960196
http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=105&sid=5941516

I-t-a-l-i-a-n-s have a historical association with both Ethiopia and Eritrea. This is because Mr Mussolini invaded them in 1936. & though they were officially liberated shortly after the ties were strong and italian continues to be a popular european language in the area of Africa known as "the horn of Africa".

We may count such states as Ethiopia, Eritirea and Somalia. Though many of those who live there, prefer assocations "through the caliphate" and most ancient trade routes across the red sea to the Arabian peninsula - Yemen and the emirates.

We might be tempted to see the cradle of AlQaeda, for Osama the mythic came from Yemen, the prolonged civil war and communist / western proxy conflicts of that fertile country reducing its people to poverty during Bin Laden's childhood long before he staked out the Soviet Red Army up the Kyber Pass of Afghanistan, decades before he disappeared in the Tora Bora.

Indeed we might. For now the Italians are producing a network of Somalian, and Ethiopian and Eritrean suspects, almost tried by media, who phone each other, don't have proper jobs, sympathise with Osama and have his memorabilia, and can be now thankfully be fast-tracked.

One hazards to guess that this is what certain allies of I-T-A-L-Y want.

**************************************************
italian coverage:-

http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/Cronache/2005/07_Luglio/30/zaino.shtml
http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/Politica/2005/07_Luglio/30/pisanu.shtml
http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/Cronache/2005/07_Luglio/30/olimpio-sarzanini.shtml
http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/Cronache/2005/07_Luglio/30/bianconi.shtml
& here's a little post post imperialist i-t-a-l-i-a-n interest piece in Somalia:-
http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/Esteri/2005/07_Luglio/30/somalia.shtml

http://ilgiorno.quotidiano.net/art/2005/07/30/5382549
http://www.repubblica.it/2005/g/sezioni/esteri/londrametro11/verbali/verbali.html
http://www.rainews24.it/Notizia.asp?NewsID=55830
http://www.ansa.it/main/notizie/fdg/200507301210208298/200507301210208298.html
http://ilgiorno.quotidiano.net/art/2005/07/30/5382494
*****************************************************
english coverage :-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4730275.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4730265.stm

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Comments (1 of 1)

Updates on this. (& a brief intro to "the Zambian")

Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:46

Now, bear in mind that Italy is "on holidays" and that the UK is not.

the Civil rights org in the uk Liberty have issued a statement reminding the UK authorities that the commerical media, in the UK are endangering a fair trial-
http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/issues/terrorism-ag-letter-re-fair-trials.PDF

Please do not forget that at in the press conference of 21/7/05 Blair (Ian the cop) said "we want trials out of this". Please remember how upset everyone was when de Menezes was shot without trial.

It now emerges that the I-t-a-l-i-a-n-s have charged one of the key suspects along with his brother for offences under I-t-a-l-i-a-n law. Interestingly affording themselves the chance of trying out their new anti-terror laws and courts, and (ahem) keeping "their man" there.
I-t-a-l-y has proven to be fertile ground for logistical, technical and financial support for "alQ terrorism", indeed there is more of an i-t-a-l-i-a-n connection to all attacks in the EU then anyone is keen to be made public.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1540818,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1540759,00.html

You could compare & contrast this with the other "long distance" suspect Haroon Rashid Aswat, 31, who grew up in West Yorkshire, and was detained in Lusaka, Zambia, 12 days ago on the request of US authorities investigating an alleged al-Qaida training camp in Oregon.

Aswat's case is interesting, he has gone from a "named suspect" central to the investigation, (such as de Menenez) to an additional arrest "sundry to the investigation", and the US and UK are provoking a lot of background noise in the intelligence sector for their attitudes.

& because its so interesting, lawyer Gareth Pierce has got involved. You might remember Ms Pierce from such cases as the guildford 4. She has joined the not unsubstantial group of people who believe Aswat will be sent to Guantanamo if handed over to the US in Zambia.

I can not tell you, if Ms Pierce is one of the slightly less substantial group of people who believe that the case being made against Aswat suggests that "s-o-m-e-o-n-e" had already succeeded in "i-n-f-i-l-t-r-a-t-i-o-n" of this supposed British African fundamentalist terrorist organisation and that mr Aswat, who some media says was once Osama's bodyguard (!?) is a pawn on the board whom the British are pro-actively "p-r-o-t-e-c-t-i-n-g".

Aswat arrived in Zambia on the 6th of july.
The existence of the "training camp" in Oregan is not proven, but sees connections with one AlQ arrest on the US pacific coast of a lawyer (US citizen) after the Madrid bombings, the Spanish asked for extradition of that person, he's still over there - somewhere.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1540001,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4731653.stm

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the 4th man... who else is in the Q? "Our Laws & I-t-a-l-i-a-n-s"

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